Overview and Scrutiny Committee - Monday 6 January 2025, 4:00pm - Slides Tab - Cotswold District Council Webcasting
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Speaking:
Agenda item :
Start of webcast
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
Agenda item :
1 Apologies
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
Agenda item :
2 Substitute Members
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Agenda item :
3 Declarations of Interest
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
Agenda item :
4 Minutes
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
Agenda item :
5 Matters Arising from Minutes of the Previous Meeting
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Michael Vann
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
Agenda item :
6 Chair's Announcements
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
Agenda item :
7 Public Questions
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Cabinet Member
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor David Cunningham
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
Agenda item :
8 Member Questions
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Agenda item :
9 Climate and Ecological Emergency
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Cabinet Member
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Dilys Neill
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Cabinet Member
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Councillor Dilys Neill
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Cabinet Member
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor David Fowles
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Cabinet Member
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Councillor David Fowles
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor David Fowles
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Cabinet Member
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Councillor David Fowles
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor David Fowles
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Cabinet Member
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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David Stanley, Deputy CEO
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Clare Turner
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Cabinet Member
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor David Cunningham
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Cabinet Member
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Councillor David Cunningham
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Cabinet Member
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Councillor Gary Selwyn
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Cabinet Member
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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Cabinet Member
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Lisa Spivey
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Cabinet Member
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Gary Selwyn
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor David Fowles
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Cabinet Member
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Cabinet Member
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor David Fowles
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Cabinet Member
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Cabinet Member
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Jon Wareing
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Cabinet Member
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Dilys Neill
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Andrew Brown, Officer
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Andrew Brown, Officer
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
Agenda item :
10 Publica Transition Update
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Councillor David Cunningham
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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CEO Rob Weaver
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Councillor David Fowles
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CEO Rob Weaver
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor David Fowles
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CEO Rob Weaver
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CEO Rob Weaver
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Lisa Spivey
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CEO Rob Weaver
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Councillor Michael Vann
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CEO Rob Weaver
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Jon Wareing
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CEO Rob Weaver
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Dilys Neill
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CEO Rob Weaver
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Councillor Dilys Neill
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CEO Rob Weaver
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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CEO Rob Weaver
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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CEO Rob Weaver
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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CEO Rob Weaver
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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CEO Rob Weaver
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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CEO Rob Weaver
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor David Fowles
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
Slide 1
Agenda item :
10 Publica Transition Update
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
Agenda item :
11 Financial Performance Report 2024-25 Quarter Two and Update Report
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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David Stanley, Deputy CEO
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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David Stanley, Deputy CEO
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor David Fowles
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David Stanley, Deputy CEO
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Councillor David Fowles
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David Stanley, Deputy CEO
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor David Cunningham
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David Stanley, Deputy CEO
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Councillor David Cunningham
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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David Stanley, Deputy CEO
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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David Stanley, Deputy CEO
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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David Stanley, Deputy CEO
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Jon Wareing
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David Stanley, Deputy CEO
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor David Cunningham
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David Stanley, Deputy CEO
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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David Stanley, Deputy CEO
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor David Cunningham
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David Stanley, Deputy CEO
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Lisa Spivey
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Gary Selwyn
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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David Stanley, Deputy CEO
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor David Cunningham
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David Stanley, Deputy CEO
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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Councillor Lisa Spivey
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor David Fowles
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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David Stanley, Deputy CEO
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Lisa Spivey
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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Councillor Michael Vann
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor David Fowles
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
Agenda item :
12 Service Performance Report 2024-25 Quarter Two
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Andrew Brown, Officer
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Gary Selwyn
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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CEO Rob Weaver
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor David Cunningham
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Councillor David Cunningham
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CEO Rob Weaver
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Councillor David Cunningham
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Michael Vann
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CEO Rob Weaver
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Andrew Brown, Officer
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Dilys Neill
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Dilys Neill
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Councillor David Cunningham
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Gary Selwyn
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Councillor David Cunningham
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Councillor Gary Selwyn
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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CEO Rob Weaver
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Officer
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor David Fowles
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CEO Rob Weaver
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Councillor David Fowles
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor David Cunningham
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Officer
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Councillor David Cunningham
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Andrew Brown, Officer
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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CEO Rob Weaver
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Councillor Gina Blomefield
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Councillor David Fowles
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Webcast Finished
Disclaimer: This transcript was automatically generated, so it may contain errors. Please view the webcast to confirm whether the content is accurate.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:00:00
A little few minutes late, a few little things to chat about before we started.A warm welcome to everyone present, including any members of the public, whether in person
or watching online.
I also want to acknowledge and welcome the cabinet members and officers who will be giving
1 Apologies
their reports to all the members of the committee and also the officers present to support the
overview and scrutiny committee in its functions.
I repeat the usual housekeeping.
Fire exit is through the door there.
Toilets are round to the left.
Please turn off or put on silent any mobile device.
This meeting will be live streamed and will also be available to view later on CDC's Facebook
website.
If anyone wishes to film the proceedings this is permitted provided it does not disrupt proceedings.
Moving on from there, whether we have any apologies?
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:01:07
We have received apologies from Councillor Tony Slater.But we haven't received any from Delis Neal who is not present at the moment.
Not to my knowledge.
All right.
And do we have a substitute member?
2 Substitute Members
We have Councillor Fowles for Tony Slater.
Does anybody have any declarations of interest?
3 Declarations of Interest
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:01:34
No? So we shall move on.I hope everybody's read the minutes.
I have notified my amendments to the minutes to Andrew Brown
in advance and requested
4 Minutes
that the various matters arising would be ready for the committee today. Does anyone
have any further amendments? That is on how you see the written minutes now.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:01:58
Councillor Jenkinson.Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 0:02:19
Thank you, David.On the waste round of rezoning, page 9 and 10, the last bullet point, it was stated that
and that the report process could be improved.
I think there was a specific question that was asked, a specific point, which was that
the analysis could make use of quality improvement tools.
It wasn't a general point, which doesn't really contribute very much, but rather that there
were specific quality analysis and improvement tools that had been used for a number of decades
that could be advantageous in this situation?
Thank you.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:03:12
For example,Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 0:03:14
it was stated that the analysis reportingprocess could be improved by the use of quality
management tools.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:03:25
Yes, again, we will get thatamended. Has anybody else got any other amendments or corrections? No. Right, so
could we have a proposal and a seconder for the minutes?
5 Matters Arising from Minutes of the Previous Meeting
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:03:45
Councillor Cunningham.Anyone?
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:03:50
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:03:55
And – sorry, I pressed the thing hard enough.Could we have a vote on passing those minutes for those people who were present?
Councillor Michael Vann - 0:04:09
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:04:15
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:04:22
I hope those have been noted.Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:04:34
Right, well thank you. Now matters are rising. I have got a note that there was a remindergoing to be sent to all members regarding GDAS training, that's the domestic abuse training.
I don't think that's been sent out yet. I mean obviously we've had Christmas and New
Year but it was mentioned that it was incredibly helpful on anybody who would like to get involved.
I see Councillor Spivey is very keen that I'm promoting this.
So please, it would be good if that was sent round
as a reminder for people to do.
Also another thing I picked up was reminders being sent
to residents sometime to be reminding them of the importance
of recycling being, you know, to improve their recycling
to better understand how they should be recycling everything.
I know that a lot of residents get it spot on,
but still from our previous meeting it was mentioned
that again some people are putting
into the general waste stuff which could be in the recycling.
And referring to draft budget discussions and following
up on the CFO's, David Stanley's comment that the impact
from national insurance increase on UBCO employees,
We now know that the government will not be covering these for
Yubico or indeed for public employees,
so that will impact the budget.
That's came out of the budget and it's just a note that that
is going to have an impact.
And also I wanted to have a work plan meeting which is
not yet set.
It's got to be done before the 10th of February,
which is when I'm going away.
And I still haven't got a diary note on that,
so I am sure that will be coming.
Does anybody else have anything they would like to bring up under Matters Arising?
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:06:33
Good, good, excellent.Let's keep moving on.
6 Chair's Announcements
Look, this is the Chair's announcements.
I appreciate that O &S meets less frequently in Cabinet,
but it was disappointing to find that the second quarter performance
financial reports which were due to be discussed by Cabinet in January were moved into December,
so we didn't have a chance to look at it at O &S before they went to Cabinet.
It has been agreed and it was entirely on our Cabinet agenda today, we can still make
comments, we can make recommendations, we treat it as if it hasn't actually gone to
cabinet and any matter can be called in.
So I just wanted everybody to be aware of that.
There is going to be a look at how our agendas keep in place with the cabinet, because there
are certain things that should go to O &S before going to cabinet.
I know it's quite difficult sometimes to organise, but where possible and where it's important,
it should be done in that order.
I also discussed the future work plan at my pre -scrutiny meeting, and I felt very strongly
that we needed to have, as all members or everybody in the Council, the Oxford District
with Yubico.
Their costs have obviously been affected by the budget.
The government's got a stated aim to rationalize
across the country the amount of different type
of bin collections.
We want to ensure that the recycling is genuinely
effective environmentally.
And looking at the new type of waste vehicles
that they will be looking to purchase.
At the last, though, unless we did have a good discussion
with Yubico discussing the rezoning of collections and an update on the service.
But I do think it's a wider thing and it is one of our most important responsibilities as members.
So that we've now got, I'm sure you should have all noted this, there is going to be an all -member briefing on the 4th of February at midday for an hour.
It will be on teams.
I would have loved it to have been here in person in the Chamber
because I sometimes feel that meeting the people
and really discussing it in detail would have been useful,
but I know it's not always easy to get everybody together
and people have busy lives.
I also want to make one other point.
I'm sure everybody in the Chamber is aware that government is consulting
on wide -ranging changes to the set -up of local government
with the introduction of more mayors
as well as the creation of unitaries,
which would merge the current district, borough, county
councils to create much bigger organisations.
If these changes happen, Cotswold District
will at some point be no more.
And the reason I'm raising this is not
that I don't believe that some of the town and parish councils
understand how this might affect them through losing
the local link with a district councillor. I know they would still have a
councillor representing them from this if we go to new unitaries or whatever,
but they cover a much bigger area. It's not quite so, it's slightly more remote
and they would have an awful lot of parish and town councils to look after
each one. And also it's their relationship in particular with the
Department at Cotswold. You know that here it's much it's been very easy but
if it's we went countywide or other the other combinations which have been
proposed maybe there will be changes and I'm just wanted to say that I think at
some point that earned S ought to look at it or we want to be supporting our
town and parish councils in whatever changes. I know they're not finalized yet
but I do think that they're going to need support in understanding how their
roles work if we do change to a unitary. That's me for me. I just wondered if
there are any public questions.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:11:10
Councillor Jenkins, I'm just going to check whether you should be coming, should beunder public. Andrew and Angela.
7 Public Questions
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:11:28
Councillor Jackinson, please, your question.Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 0:11:35
Thank you, Chair.Thank you, O &S Committee, for enabling me to ask this question.
As you know, I am a member of this particular committee.
As a member, I consider that the role of being a committee member means that you are non -partisan,
plan, you take an interest in the whole affairs of the whole district rather than representing
a specific one -sided approach. But as a resident of the town of Morton -in -Marche, I wanted
to bring something from that particular point of view. As you know, Morton -in -Marche was
targeted in the designs for consultation as a strategic development area for new development.
development. This is on top of very considerable development in the decades before that. This
has been a matter of great deal of concern to the town.
At the time it came to the ONS committee that there was a review before it went to Cabinet
and Council about this. At the time a decision was made in this committee to recommend that
a body should be set up of local people to be able to monitor what was going on.
This was subsequently approved by Council.
That's three quarters of a year ago and this body has not yet been established.
It's understood from the published Council report that there will be a matter brought
to the Council but this has not yet been published as to what it actually is.
We note that this is also another matter that has not come back to the ONS Committee for review before it goes to Cabinet and Council.
Under those circumstances, may I, on behalf of my fellow residents in Moreton -in -Marsh, request of the ONS Committee that they should continue to monitor this particular matter,
and the role of this particular body in supporting the processes on behalf of
Cotswold district as well as the local town. Thank you.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:13:50
Well thank you Councillor Jenkinson. Obviously this is a very importantCabinet Member - 0:14:03
matter for Morton and its residents and I do hope... Yes sorry to interrupt but II think it is just worth highlighting that actually on this committee's work plan for
February is an item that is update on strategic plan for North Cotswold.
So I would expect an update to be coming forward at that time, which may well help allay some
of your concerns and provide some of the answers that you're looking for.
Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 0:14:25
Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 0:14:26
I just wanted to specifically say this is the working group that I'm referring to andnot the plan.
and I believe the working group is going to have new terms of reference that will be approved in the council meeting, I presume.
And it is the fact that that hasn't come here.
Now, is it a specific thing about the working group? Not just the plan, the working group specifically, which was agreed in council?
It was agreed, proposed here, agreed in council, and it's being changed and we are not involved and it still hasn't started and we don't know why.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:15:05
On the protocol of all this, is there any answer we can give Councillor Jenkinson atthis point apart from the fact we are going to be discussing this at the next meeting,
but it is to do more with the working group as such, which is what people feel. I know
even the reverberations get to Chipping Camden and things, that people are concerned that
they're not being involved and consulted.
Councillor Cunningham.
Councillor David Cunningham - 0:15:34
Madam Chair, if I could, if possible, can we put on the agenda for the meeting that'stalking about the plan a specific sub -agenda that covers the make -up of the working group.
In terms of replying to Councillor Jenkinson, I think, Chair, if you just want to agree
that that's going to happen, and then if the forward planning team, who I think were part
of putting that together could give an answer back,
a written answer back.
I think that would be helpful to everybody.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:16:02
Well, thank you.And thank you for the question and for bringing it up.
Thank you very much.
Now we shall go on to any member questions.
I don't think we've been notified
of any ahead of the meeting, so I'm
8 Member Questions
assuming there probably aren't any member questions.
Right.
So now we have got climate and ecological emergency.
9 Climate and Ecological Emergency
Mike McCarran is with us, the cabinet member for climate change and sustainability.
Olivia McGregor, who is our new climate lead officer, will be dialling in, we hope.
Sometimes the technology isn't quite as straightforward as it should be, so let's hope she gets in.
But if not, Claire Locke is also able to help and answer questions where needed.
But shall we kick off with you, Mike? Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Cabinet Member - 0:16:57
Oops, a quick run through the key points.Four of you ready?
I'm quite keen on it.
Not too much of reading the stuff which you already know,
but actually either giving more clarification
or drawing attention to what you see as the key points
rather than reading through the whole thing.
Okay, thanks.
I guess a few key points.
I mean, one, we pretty much, we can see why this is so important to do.
We've all been experiencing it just over the last the last autumn.
In fact, I've just been reading a WhatsApp message from one of our Councillors saying that homes in South Cerny are about North Cerny.
Sorry, you're about maybe about to flood.
And this is because of climate change and it's getting worse.
So we all need to do our bit and not delay as some people seem to be encouraging us to do to act quickly as possible.
So we're glad to doing our small bit.
We will make a quite big difference between us.
I guess a few key points from the report itself.
As you know, we're, you know, our goal as a council is to reduce our carbon footprint by 80 % by 2030 and 100 by 2045, which is you boil it down to simple stuff as a council itself.
That's mainly getting the gas out of our buildings and the and the diesel not burning in our waste truck fleet is probably the majority of that stuff.
Yeah, well it might be methane, if you have methane, but if it's just hot air that's probably
not too bad, but as long as you've not too much methane, I think you're alright.
I guess, you know, key things that, you know, to highlight from the report that we've achieved
and what some of the things coming up, obviously big stuff literally above our heads here is
solar was installed just last year and it's helping us save a lot of money as well as
a lot of many, many tons of carbon.
And we're just in discussions with the residents
or the users of the brewery arts to install solar there.
So as long as they're in agreement
to buy the electricity and saving them some cost,
that will also help us as well.
The other one we were mentioning, UBICO,
obviously a clear big thing.
And UBICO has been tasked with coming up with a decarb
plan for their fleet.
I think we'll probably need some working with climate
leadership Gloucestershire which I'm the current chair is working across the
county on getting some external help to help them plan that pretty complex and
costly transition to the fleet but that is the vast majority of us it's
certainly more than 50 % of our carbon footprint is that is that fleet so
that's going to be a critical but tough one depending a lot on grants and other
things to get us over the line with that the other couple of big ones local plan
As you know, we're reworking the local plan,
and that has big significant carbon reduction stuff
to make new homes much lower carbon to run,
as well as much lower carbon to build.
With the nice side benefit,
it makes the homes much cheaper to run as well.
A few of the highlights from kind of district -wide enablement,
the Cotswold Home Solar Initiative
has been very successful,
with a good number of homes already installed
and many more in the pipeline of installation
and showing interest as well.
We estimate, or our supplier estimates,
about 450 ,000 pounds worth of lifetime savings
to residents who have adopted already
off their electricity bills.
I can certainly attest to that as one of them myself.
My electricity bills have been negative over the summer,
which has been rather nice.
The electricity company is paying me
rather than me paying them, which is a good thing.
The other big initiative we've got running at the
moment, we've got, we were successful in getting
funding from the Southwest Net Zero Hub with our
partners with Climate Leadership, Gloucestershire,
Cheltenham Council, and Forest of Dean.
And as a result, we've all employed retrofit officers
as the internal name, the external name for the
public is a less technical, is a home energy
efficiency program to help homes, existing homes in
the Cotswolds to reduce their carbon footprint,
make their homes warmer and cozier, and cut their
energy bills significantly.
So that's just launched.
So a big welcome to Justine, who I think is
probably on the call, our new retrofit officer who's
got a lot of expertise in the area and is helping
organize community outreach events and stuff with our
communities.
In fact, the first big event is going to be at the beginning of March.
We'll be announcing it shortly in Cirencester with lots of local businesses on both things
like heat pumps, solar, electric vehicle adoption and so forth in the Corn Hall and in the center
of Cirencester as well.
So more on that imminently from the COMS team.
We're working with our local electricity suppliers, SSEN, principally, a little bit of National
grid on I think what a local area energy plan which is to help us plan out what
the grid upgrades are to handle a the extra generation from renewable energy
and be the extra demand from things like electric vehicles and heat pumps and so
on particularly critical tearing my hair out personally as I you may know I'm
also a founder of a community energy group and our local grid like much of
the UK is sadly the victim of masses of government under investment for many
years and is in a pretty dire state so it needs millions and hounds worth of
upgrades should have been done years ago could have been done years ago if the if
the government at the time had listened to the electricity companies warning
them what would happen and now indeed we are suffering from that very thing but
hasn't stopped us so one of the good things we've been achieving again I've
been quite involved in his community energy where crowdfund Cotswolds helped
us fund get that started and the Southwest net zero hub funded us under
the 40 ,000 recently so we're now engaging with the local grid and several
landowners about developing community energy solar farm which game should
return money to the community as well as helping cut carbon footprint and the
last couple of things on community engagement.
Again, Crowdfund Cotswolds plus the Rural England
Prosperity Fund and some great work by offices like
Paul James, for example, has helped us get funds going
to local businesses and to some of our community
village halls, including my own, actually, to install
measures that help cut their running costs.
So that's things like solar panels on roofs.
It's putting more efficient heating systems in.
a good one I got from you.
I think Gina was installing infrared heating,
which I think was a tip from you.
That was a good one.
We installed that in our village hall,
and my new kitchen extension, which is helping.
It's certainly very tasty and warm.
So that's working well.
And thanks to actually engagement
we had a few months ago by Chris Snowden,
a member of the public who came to ask us some questions
about climate action here in the council meeting earlier in the year.
Together we formed a thing called the Cotswold Climate Action Network, so we've got a good
healthy group of local public members working with us in the council on action across, you
know, from farming and nature through to solar, electric vehicles and so on.
So that's a new formative group.
Anybody who's listening, have a look out for it.
We'd love to have more people on board.
So we love to work together because the reality is what we can do to our carbon footprint is probably less than 2%.
It's important we have to do it.
Most of what we can do to help cut the carbon footprint in the Cotswolds is helping encourage our residents,
our businesses, the three biggest sources of carbon here in the Cotswolds are,
one is our transport, our cars, two is our buildings, our home, and three,
What Angus knows and is working hard on, I know, is agriculture, which uniquely positioned
to not just cut its footprint, but could actually become a net negative, could actually be absorbing
carbon in the Cotswolds and beyond.
So that's a highlight.
Happy to answer any questions.
And of course, we've got Olivia here at Claire next to me to answer any more complex questions
that might go beyond me.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:25:43
Thank you for all of that.I'm sure there'll be lots of questions.
I just wanted to see if Claire wanted to add anything or would you just would like to.
So yes, I've got Councillor Fowles, Councillor Cunningham, Councillor, lots of questions
are coming.
Thank you.
Yeah, thanks very much.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:26:04
I just wanted to ask you a bit about the retrofit officer and the role of the retrofit officer.So we had, maybe three years ago, I think, we had something that came up at the planning
committee with a Bromford project and it sort of became apparent at the committee that there
was a lack of understanding about the best methods of retrofit from all parties involved.
So from Bromford who are putting forward the application,
from the planning officers and from the members
of the planning committee,
and we all, is one of the, presumably one of the roles
of the retrofit officer is going to be to educate us,
but also hopefully to engage
with our social housing providers.
Would that be a reasonable thing to say?
Yeah, I mean, certainly her expertise is a kind
Cabinet Member - 0:27:01
of key thing, whether that's explaining thatto the general public, which is most of what the funding
is towards.
It's getting about 300 homes to retrofit.
And she is super expert on this.
She's actually used to train people to do retrofit
instructions, so she's a kind of real subject matter
expert and is working closely with Olivia,
who I can now see on the screen.
Hi, Olivia.
And she has indeed been working,
or both of them have, with our planning team, for example.
So we're about to publish a bunch of guidelines
on our website for things like retrofitting to in conservation areas
and listed buildings to make that simpler and and easier as well but yeah
a big part of her role is education is going out and we've also contracted
Gloucestershire wide a company called FerbNow and their job is to provide paid
paid advice and supports for residents. Maybe comes to our event in March and is
interested they can get Furb now who's been through a public procurement and
has been selected they'll come along to your house for example do a full survey
come up and recommend what to install if you want them they'll also kind of act
like an architect does if you're doing an extension so they'll project manage
so they'll help you select the best vendor so we're selecting vendors for
preferred list with a preference for those vendors that are local companies
so we create employment here in business,
and then they'll even project manage
and make sure that they've done a good job of installing it.
Because our research nationally is one of the biggest things
that holds people back is nervousness.
It's like, oh, I'm going to do a lot of stuff to my house.
I don't want to wreck my house.
I don't want to mess it up.
So is it a trusted supplier and getting that independent advice
is going to be great.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:28:51
Well, is yours going to be engaging with our social housingproviders, because they have a huge stock of houses
that needs retrofitting, not just Pomfret,
but the other ones as well.
Cabinet Member - 0:28:58
She'll be doing some level of that.Her funding, unfortunately, is primarily for the,
what they call the able -to -pay market.
So, she's assisting the social housing providers,
but her core focus is the public.
But she'll provide some advice,
and certainly through our planning team.
Thank you.
Good.
Councillor Fowles, please.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:29:22
Councillor David Fowles - 0:29:23
I don't know whether this is directed at you, Mike or Olivia, but the first is, and thismay be the wrong perception, but if you look at the media, the jury remains out on electric
vehicles and there are a number of manufacturers who are either stopping electric vehicle production
or cutting back.
We're not that clear on where the government is in terms of making electric vehicles available
to those of us here who can't necessarily afford to pay kind of exorbitant figures.
And in particular, when you're looking at rural communities, electric vehicles still seem to be,
arguably not the right solution. Are we monitoring that as a council?
And I wonder what your respective views are on it.
It just seems to me that the media is full of let's hold fire.
And I just was curious to know whether you shared that concern,
recognising it's against the backdrop that we all think
electric vehicles is a way forward.
That's question number one.
Cabinet Member - 0:30:29
Yeah.Try and answer that, then you come back to that,
because I've got short memory.
I guess my comments on that are, yeah,
something I have quite strong views on.
It's, some of it is truthful, you know,
genuine questions that people have.
A lot of it frankly is very orchestrated misinformation campaign that tracks back to vested interests
that are desperately trying to slow the transition to it to protect their existing business sadly.
So a lot of it is a recent organization called industry organization set up called electric
vehicles UK which has members across a lot of the car manufacturers and their main auspices
is to defod misinformation because there's
an absolutely massive and very well -funded campaign
to spread misinformation across all media.
So there's genuine concerns.
I think I would accept that, but there's probably
80 % misinformation about those things.
My own personal experience, I live rural in an electric
vehicle.
I do 15 ,000 miles a year, which is about twice
the national average.
It works really well for me.
I plug in at night, at home.
It costs me five pounds to fill up my car for about 280 miles
of range, so fraction of the cost it was in my previous diesel.
And I can, you know, I can drive for several hours.
I've driven to Edinburgh with two stops of about 20 minutes each.
It works really well.
The critical stuff, you know, why are we putting EV chargers,
for example, in our car parks?
about 35 % of homes in the UK don't have off -street parking so they're reliant on
can they plug it into a council car park or can they plug into street chargers or
cross -payment charging solutions is probably one of the biggest areas hence
you know my passion for making sure we get our charging right here in the in
the Cotswolds to enable people to buy them.
Councillor David Fowles - 0:32:35
Can you hear me? Yeah, can people hear me okay? Yeah, I'm getting nods. Thank you CouncillorFowles for your question. Yeah, we've looked at the science and the life cycle emissions
of electric vehicles are favourable compared to ICE, so internal combustion engines and
and we're working with Gloucestershire Councils to look at and review the science, but as it
stands, electric vehicles are preferable and we as a council are assisting with the roll -out of that
by putting EV chargers in our car parks. We're also helping to myth -bust as well.
Mike referenced the event where we're hosting in March, where people will have a chance
to actually come along and try out EVs.
And hopefully that will help people get an in -person view of what electric vehicles can
offer and provide impartial advice that can help people make the right decision for them.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:33:51
And if I can just come in on the previous question.Oh, sorry.
Very, very quick.
Councillor David Fowles - 0:33:57
Yes, okay, it's it's in relation to the literally recent government announcements to make availableAnd just heavily subsidize solar panels
And I wondered whether we have a view on that firstly in relation to our relationship with Cotswold home solar scheme
So if this is imminent are we going to be able to take advantage of it and the second one?
Which is perhaps a more specific one is
I'm not aware, but maybe colleagues are
are, are the government indicating that they might
support us as a local authority in providing
panels at a reduced cost, or is it strictly for
domestic use?
Thank you.
Cabinet Member - 0:34:49
Sorry, Olivia, did you want to comment, if you knowanything about the government scheme before I have my comments? Do you want to
go first Mike? I actually didn't hear the question properly. Okay fine yeah it's
not great audio let me cover first. So I mean there's a few... whether the
government will fund, will give subsidy to buying is I guess an open question.
Personally I'm a bit dubious as to whether it really happened given the
finances of the country. The reality is it's a pretty good
that if you've got the money, the issue is probably if you don't have the money
to invest, but if you have the money to invest, for me it was better to put solar
on my roof than it was to leave the money in the bank because it earns me
more money up there than it and I was getting interest. So it's because the
price of solar has dropped so dramatically it's a pretty good
investment. So whether they'll do it and therefore you know whether you know
whether that's direct grant to the customers or through us, we're already
offering a four, no 500 pound I think it is discount through Make My House Green
to local residents to reduce the cost of solar for them at the moment. Hence the
uptake has been pretty pretty good. The other thing that I'm hoping will come
off as well that's kind of as a private members bill at the moment by Max who's
the MP in Cheltenham is is to make it mandatory that solar is installed on new
buildings when they're first built which is kind of nuts that we're still here
that neither the previous or the current government has still yet made that
mandatory which is kind of completely mad given it would I've done the maths
it would work the extra cost of the building is minimal the interest rate
you'd pay on your mortgage for having solar panels would be less than the
savings on your electricity bills I just don't know why they don't get on with
that but fingers crossed they will we should also mean we don't need quite as
solar on farmland and the like if you've got more of it on buildings.
So it's a bit of a win -win.
Councillor David Fowles - 0:36:59
Yeah Mike would you like me to come in? We will benefit as a local authority fromthis in terms of we're about to go and spend money with brewery arts and there's
some funding imminently. I didn't know whether we have a perspective on that,
any indication from the government. Chair, Olivia was on...
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:37:19
Olivia, can you come back? Perhaps you can cover both those. Did you hear CouncillorFowls' second question there about the new brewery arts and the proposals to put the
solar energy on the solar panels? I'm afraid I didn't hear the question, so let me cover
the first question first of all. The latest information we have from the government refers
to the Warm Homes Plan and that applies to funding for low -income households and then other households
have a VAT exemption. I can answer the second question if it's repeated.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:38:02
Councillor David Fowles - 0:38:03
The second question was whether we have any indication that we are, as a local authority,going to get any assistance from the government or any further assistance to put solar panels
on our buildings, starting with the EREAS?
We can apply for funding from the government, but that does rely on us being able to conduct
energy audits, in -depth energy audits first. So that's the current kind of work plan that
we're undertaking. Once we can show we've conducted all of those energy audits, then
we can submit that information to the government and apply for funding for decarbonisation
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:38:52
works which could include solar panels. But I think with Brewery Arts, maybe Claire willbe able to give an update on the latest there because I'm aware that the proposals were
to move forward if they accepted them?
Cabinet Member - 0:39:09
We're still waiting for a response from Bury Arts at the moment so if therewas any funding available through the government we would look to tap into
that.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:39:19
Well thank you, oh David Stanley has got a comment on it.David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 0:39:26
Thank you chair, just on solar panels and this authorities assets there was athat was taken to cabinet, I can't remember quite when it was, we'll give you a written
answer where it set out the framework for which the business case would be prepared
and the return that would need to make for the council to be able to provide the capital
financing to put Solar PV on its own assets. And the first two that were part of that was
Newbury Arts and this building. Subsequent assets would come forward subject to that
business case. So that was the council using its own internal resources, but that's not
there might be alternative sources of funding that could mitigate some of the risk that
the council would be taking on that investment.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:40:10
Thank you for that.I just wanted to hear, since you just answered that, I just want to have clarification on
– I understood it, that the Make My House Green or whatever, they were giving a discount
for the residents.
It wasn't actually the council itself who was giving the discounts.
They might have been slightly misled.
I'm sure you're up to this point.
But it was actually from them that they were giving a 10 % discount on the work.
So thank you.
He's giving a nod to that.
So that's who it is.
Councillor Turner, please.
Thank you.
Councillor Clare Turner - 0:40:45
I have a couple of questions if I could ask two of them.So sticking with the transport theme, I was pleased to note in a separate item
that we're actively recruiting for a sustainable transport officer.
I wondered if you can elaborate whether that work that they will undertake is related specifically
to the local plan and building those policies in the update or whether that covers a wider
remit.
So it was the first one.
And the second one, understandably the report focuses, that we have been presented today,
the report focuses on reducing carbon emissions.
I wondered if you could comment on the extent to which the Council is also embedding mitigation
of the impacts of climate change into our work,
particularly whether there are potential benefits,
co -benefits such as ecological or economic benefits
to that type of work.
And I'm thinking, for example,
is sufficient resourcing being allocated
to flood -related issues given our role working
with riparian responsibilities?
Are we doing enough to support communities
with our emergency planning for extreme weather events?
Is there a role for CDC to do more to help build resilience
in the farming community?
So ultimately, I suppose that question is summarized by,
do we have enough officer time and resource to fully consider
opportunities for smaller investments now that will save
money in the long run?
Cabinet Member - 0:42:10
So in terms of the Sustainable Transport Office,the primary focus for that role would be around the local plan.
So ensuring that that plan has the right sustainable
infrastructure within it and acting as a sort of key point of contact really for
this authority to liaise with the County Council for example in the development
of their plans so I think that is the primary focus for that and then coming
on to answer your second question I think this is part of the work that
we've been doing over the last few months really to actually speak with
services that support everything that the council does because we have to
truly embed this issue of climate change in everything
that we do, every decision that we take, in the same
way that we currently consider, you know, the
resources, the financial implications of every
decision, we should be considering the climate
implications of every decision.
So, we have been talking to officers across the
council, speaking to them about the work they're
already doing, thinking about opportunities so that
we could do things further, and trying to connect the
dots, really, in terms of some of those issues you
described. In terms of resources I would say that's always going to be
challenging because if we had more resources clearly we could do a lot more
so we are looking at how we prioritize our activity to make sure that we
actually get the best out of the resources that we do have and achieve
the most in terms of reducing our carbon emissions.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:43:45
Thank you and does that answer both questions?Yes.
Thank you very much.
Councillor Cunningham.
Councillor David Cunningham - 0:43:52
Thank you Madam Chair.Mine are really easy ones.
On page 16, 2 .2, Trinity Road and Rissington car park are fully operational.
Do we have any usage stats on those please?
And in 2 .4, the council has now entered into a contract with Connected Curb.
Plans to ensure that the council are over progressed.
Some of the money is coming from government. Where's the rest of the money coming from?
And the engagement officers take this challenge.
External funding for the post has been secured for one year.
From whom? That's it.
Cabinet Member - 0:44:38
So I'll do the first two if I may.So in terms of the usage data for the charging points that have been installed, I can't give
you any off the top of my head, but yes, we can certainly provide that.
We do review that.
And that's really important because it helps shape what we might do in the future.
Similarly, the data we've used from the charging points we previously had has helped steer
where we go with this.
So I'm happy to supply that to the committee subsequently.
In terms of the funding for the new charging points we're proposing, yes some
of the money is coming from central government, the rest of the money is
being funded by this council and that was a business case that came forward to
cabinet last year that set out the proposals to actually install those
charging points. So it is being funded by this this council.
Is it around 100 ,000, I think?
Yeah, I think the total for the four is about,
and it's 50 -50, so we get 50 percent,
lots of the AUKS funding from central governments,
and then we contribute the other 50 percent.
Yeah, yes.
Yeah, about 100 ,000.
Yeah, and obviously we will be, you know,
the users will be charged for that,
so there is a rate that's calculated based on the cost
of electricity, the standing charges we have for sort of
maintenance and the back office services processing costs and so forth
So that that covers that cost
The reason I ask is that mr. Business case behind me
He's gonna want all this data
He's gonna let you have any more money because I think these are key things the fact that lots of people don't have the ability
to
Councillor David Cunningham - 0:46:18
Do their charging at home because they don't have that access. It's quite important if we want to actually really make this workSo mr. Business case is going to want all that data about how much is costing us how much we're getting in
Even if it's a little bit of a last leader to start off with,
it's going to pay dividends in the end.
And the last one, did you want somebody else to answer that?
Cabinet Member - 0:46:38
So funding for the retrofit program,that's the Southwest Net Zero hub,
which I think is part of, funded from Desnes centrally,
but is a regional body for the Southwest.
They exist all over the country.
Can I just ask, just for clarity,
that that goes into the minutes so that we do know
exactly who that is?
Thanks.
Thank you. We have got Councillor Selwyn.
Councillor Gary Selwyn - 0:47:03
Thank you, Chair. Since paragraph 2 .4 was mentioned when I first read it, it did strikeme. It says that we are delivering EVCPs in four council owned car parks, Tepi, Syrens,
Stowe and Morton. I wondered which were the car parks chosen and who chose them?
Cabinet Member - 0:47:23
The detail of that probably best for Olivia, she heard them. The question Olivia was whichPacific car parks in there and how were they chosen, which I know we know well because
we went through in great detail with all the people.
Yep, certainly. It's West Street in Tetbury, Morgesbury Road in Stow -on -the -World, Old
market way in Moreton in Marsh and the brewery car park in Sire and Sester.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:47:53
Thank you. Does any other, we have a question? Oh sorry.Thank you.
Councillor Jackson and then Councillor Spivey.
Thank you, Chair.
Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 0:48:08
I'm conscious of the fact that what I'm about to say will be known by everybody in the room,but I think it's worth saying that we have a climate crisis globally.
We see it as really important.
and therefore the conversation isn't a sort of idle, general thing,
but it regards something of great importance to humanity and really important locally.
So I think what I'd like to do is first of all say my congratulations that you're achieving things,
and I think it's really helpful that the officers and so on are doing this.
My thanks to Olivia for the work that she's done on this report, for the team generally, and what has happened.
So thank you very much the officers. They don't always get that appreciation. We ask hard questions
I in particular have been known to ask hard questions, so I'd like to thank you for doing this work and
building on that point
On 2 .6. I wanted to particularly appreciate the work that's being done as part of the climate
work across the
County and that we collaborate across the county and build that kind of consensus is really important
I am a member of the Climate Action Network Group, and I don't think that requires declaration as such,
but I was able to witness a presentation there, and it was a very valuable one,
and I think we could think about the benefit that would come from having it here.
Even as a councillor who's been well exposed generally anyway without being a councillor,
and through this process, I know that there is more that I could learn,
and the importance of that is being advocates.
And I would like to encourage that we take that further in that way.
I wonder if it would be useful to have a tool to help people
to navigate a decision process as to whether retrofit would be relevant to them.
I personally would find that a helpful thing.
Maybe it exists, and if so, it should be promoted.
And lastly, on parking, the question I would like to ask is, it's an anecdotal matter,
but I've brought it up before.
When I look at the car park in Mortenham Marsh, very frequently there is nobody there, no
car being actually charged, and they're not able to charge overnight.
And because it's a slower charging mechanism, if you really want to charge a full car, you
need more than an hour to be able to do that.
So I was wondering whether we could look at the policy of how to encourage people to recognize that it's there remote that information
And perhaps think about making it available for overnight charging
Cabinet Member - 0:50:49
So in reverse or the overnight charging absolutelyWe should definitely take that as an action they should be and bless there's some bizarre
legal reason we our car park could always be open for
charging as you rightly say it's the main use case and in fact the main
reason for the funding from central government is it has to be in car parks
that are near residential homes for their overnight charging principally so
that is the kind of core purpose of it absolutely on the advice side of things
actually yes that's part of this overall retrofit program so later in this month
There's a launch of the Third Now Service,
and they have a website called the Retrofit Center,
and that has the option of you going online and doing a sort
of a basic plan online for free, and then if you want to,
you can take the paid service.
And I should mention, if you're a low -income house,
which is defined by central government as £36 ,000
household income or less, you can get all of that completely
free through warm and well which is the energy charity that we we and other
councils in Gloucestershire support so the paid stuff is for those of us able
to pay but there is options for those who are not able to often would benefit
most from having their their heating bills cut. Did I miss any other questions?
Sorry my memory is a bit short. Thank you I think I think you covered that.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:52:15
Thank you.Councillor Spivey.
Councillor Lisa Spivey - 0:52:19
Yes, thank you very much.I note that there has been an update to the MPPF and I wondered whether there had been
anything in there that specifically tied in with our work on climate change.
My question really is around where we stand, not just from a national legislation point
of view, but also from a local point of view on things like our listed buildings. I know
you have probably heard me bang one before, but things like double glazing, even things
like I would love to redo the roof of my house, but if I am made to use Cotswold stone, it
is cost prohibitive, it won't happen, so therefore all that lovely heat is going straight throughout
my roof. I wonder if we here would like to take a very pragmatic approach to that, because
I know that certainly in fact I've been emailed over the holidays about some people are about to put in
For planning for double glazing on their listed building
We know that there are lots of companies these days that are doing heritage listed building windows, etc
But through my own experience I know in that of many of the residents that I represent that simply met with an absolute no
From the conservation officers at this council and I would like to think that Cotswold District Council
Perhaps in line with what's happening in the MPPF
but also on its own we would like to take a pragmatic approach to that.
Unless we start insulating our homes fully,
then all that lovely heat that we pay out on is going straight out the windows,
it is going straight out the doors and it is going straight out the roofs of our homes.
So I think it is really important that we are seen to be a leader in that field.
Would you like to make any comments?
Cabinet Member - 0:54:04
So on the MPPF, sadly at this stage the MPPF doesn't make a great deal of improvement.There's a separate consultation going on on the very much delayed future home standard
which would significantly improve the qualities required of insulation on newly built homes
and that's in consultation.
It's been in consultation for many, many, many years and kicks down the road.
I hope this new government doesn't kick it down the road even further, but it's not looking fantastic
But and are we're trying to address that as much as possible
Within the limits or we're allowed to do on our local plan to raise that but that's an open
I think the consultation on that that announced I think if I remember rightly around April
So we'll see on the subject of things like retrofit for local buildings one of things I mentioned Justine's being our
our retrofit office has been working with the conservation team to provide a whole bunch
of updated advice that should be going live imminently on the website. It doesn't solve
completely the issues because some of it's national controlled. Historic England have
produced just this autumn some updated stuff on their website which is kind of what the planners
also refer to which is doesn't solve the problem but is better than it was before so there's good
action. I don't know whether you want to add anything. Olivia, did you have anything else
to add on that?
Yeah, I can add that FERB now, our contractor, our Gloucestershire -wide contractor has expertise
in heritage buildings. So they will be able to provide advice to our residents who have
buildings on suitable energy efficient actions to take. And yes, just to echo what Mike said,
that Justine is working with our building department to provide advice on how people
can make their homes more energy efficient, even if they have a heritage building.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:56:14
Thank you for that, Olivia.Councillor Selwyn has got a further question.
Thank you.
Councillor Gary Selwyn - 0:56:20
It's mainly a supportive comment, if I may.I just want to welcome Councillor Spivey to the ONS committee.
The enormous extra value that you're going to add.
And the point you've picked up, just to give the concept,
is that both at this committee and at Planning,
We have regularly discussed the balance between design and heritage and the ability of our residents to upgrade their properties.
That balance has been challenging from a resident's point of view because regularly we are constrained by what we can do, even though common sense might dictate otherwise to other readers.
So I'm delighted you make that point and I hope that we'll hear more of those points being made. Thank you.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:57:08
Councillor Fowl is a short one.Thank you.
Councillor David Fowles - 0:57:10
I forgive my ignorance, but when it comes to charging for, as in paying money ratherthan the electricity that comes out, is that money collected by the electricity provider,
do we get any of that?
So when we are looking at the £100 ,000, is that just a capital cost and we don't get
any payback for that or do we enter into some kind of service fee arrangement? I am just
curious to know.
Cabinet Member - 0:57:42
Yes, so the charge that we impose that the user pays covers our costs, so we get thatback. So it covers the costs that we incur, the revenue costs, but it also includes a
small percentage towards that capital investment as well.
So we are effectively recouping what we've spent over time.
That's part of the profiling we do around usage,
so that we can actually project what the usage will be
and how we set those fees so that we...
So we want that 100 ,000 in context, which is, you know,
we would hope to get that.
Yes, yes.
Cabinet Member - 0:58:19
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:58:21
Councillor David Fowles - 0:58:24
I just like to thank you and the officer,because it's really nice to get an update from a member who knows his
subject so well and it's really refreshing. I'm not saying others don't.
I'm just saying you two in particular have answered every question and I think
it's really it's great to have you guys here. That's what I was trying to say.
Very hard for me to say that but I said it. Thank you and just to add to that you
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:58:54
You know, it's, what's some of the phrase about standing on theCabinet Member - 0:58:56
shoulders of giantsor something?
Big thanks to Claire, Olivia and Justine if she's on the call.
Yeah, they've really been fantastic partners to work with.
Lots of hard work and I know I'm quite demanding at times, but you've done fantastic stuff
so thank you.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:59:12
Right.I do too have some questions.
Really I'm sort of following up on various other people's comments about collecting the
data.
What I'm interested in knowing is how many of the people using the
Charging points electric vehicle charging points are locals or whether their visitors coming
I just think it's interesting to have that sort of split
I'm also going to make this plea that I get all the time from places like Middletown and Willersley and things
They don't have a public car park. So they don't they're not
they can't apply for having a
Electric vehicle charging point. I don't know whether they can put them into their
Village Hall car parks
But you know somebody in Mclton who's got an electric car if they've got to drive to Morton
It's a slow charge. You know they've got a plug -in. What are they going to be doing?
It's not great use of their time
We've really got to expand our electric vehicle charging point across the district to get to those other areas where people
Don't have the ability to charge from their own homes or whatever reason or isn't the access
And it would be very welcome
I don't know whether there is the funding there or whether we can push for more
but it would be lovely to see more of it going,
expanding across the whole area.
There's lots of villages missed out.
Thank you.
Cabinet Member - 1:00:28
So in terms of the data analysis and who is using our chargingpoints, we won't have that information because obviously
we, the machines collect data on how long somebody's used it for
and how much energy they've used,
but we've got no way of knowing who that customer is.
That said, we know that certain car parks are used
by certain users.
So we have some car parks we know that are primarily
used by tourists.
We have others that are more commuters that are
coming into places like Saran Sister to work
and so forth.
So we do have some anecdotal information,
but we won't have any information unfortunately
on exactly who is charging in those places.
And yes, certainly our plan longer term would be to
try and spread that infrastructure as far and
wide as we can.
And we recognize the challenges we have in the
smaller locations that don't have council and car parks.
We've kind of gone for the low -hanging fruit first.
It's easier to install on sites that we own and control.
But going forward, particularly if the government bring forward
more funding, we would look to try and find ways to support
those communities to have charging points as well.
Maybe I'd add to that is one on the funding,
definitely something, a message out to anybody from village
or parish councils or indeed our own councils have talked to them, encouraged them to fit it on their village hall.
We used our funding in my village hall for the community funding I was mentioning, rural England prosperity fund.
We're going to fit two charges there.
Others doing similar, but more would help a lot because we do need to be able to provide that.
While most people in villages tend to have off street parking, there are always, I'm sad like this,
I tend to drive around villages and look how many off street,
non -off street parking there is.
And there is always quite a few.
So on there, yeah, I know.
So encouraging that is, we could all do.
The second, I'll come to your question, the second one was,
the other thing that came out a little on Christmas present
that came out on Christmas Eve
from the central government was the long -awaited guidance
to government for allowing what's called cross -pavement
charging basically putting gullies in pavements because a lot of probably half
of people that don't have off -street parking can actually park outside the
house you see it actually just here outside the council so the government's
basically said councils you can and should but install these cable gullies
they'll probably be some but while most of that is highways for Gloucestershire
to do so I'm going to be contacting them and asking them out quickly they're
adopt the government guidelines. There is some action for us on the planning
department, plus some planning rules to remove planning permission for that, make
it permitted development just to speed it up, was actually part of the
government guidelines as well. Well thanks for that. I have to say
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:03:19
that WesternSubbench is putting in its village car park there. On this
thing about going across the pavement, I know there are issues because you can't
always park your car outside your house and so that doesn't make always solve
the problem and that has certainly been an issue in many places. If you can get
it into the lamppost that's rather better.
Councillor Jon Wareing - 1:03:47
Councillor Waring. In terms of Richardson Road car park I guess during the dayit's mostly occupied by tourists so I'm really curious to know if there's any
usage in the night time. Predictably it's more likely to be residents because we
just you know our problem is day trippers there's a lot less likelihood
of people staying for three days and keeping the car that is a name you know
Cabinet Member - 1:04:11
why are we doing it to the navelman you're one of the biggest barriers whywhy would people not buy an electric vehicle it's because they haven't got
anywhere to charge so you kind of have to put the charges in then people will
make a buying decision to buy an electric vehicle so you would expect to
see a bit of a lag between putting it in they've only recently gone in and
people starting to buy and use them for overnight versus the
visitor stuff, which would be quite quick.
Yes.
Well, thank you.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:04:39
I think we've had a very good discussion around this.I think one of the issues, too, is it is more expensive to use
a public electric vehicle charging point,
and the VAT is still higher on it.
So if the government brought down the VAT on all those
to 5%, rather than 20%, it would be good.
Was there anything else?
I think we've spent quite a long time on the subject.
What is anything that people would like to see? I see Councillor Neill would like to add something.
I'm also, if anybody wants to think about any recommendations that they would like to make to cabinet on this.
So Councillor Neill, and if we do have any recommendations, if anybody can let me know.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 1:05:13
Mine's just an observation. So one of my smaller parishes, Swale,were interested in installing
charging points in the car park next to the village hall, which happened to be owned by Bromford.
Because one person on the parish council at Swell has tenaciously followed it up for the last couple of years, I think,
he's now more or less got to a point where it's possible to have a legal agreement and to find a supplier.
I think they looked at Connected Cope, who didn't want to do it, so I can't remember who they're going with.
But if help is available for small parish councils, village hall committees, etc.,
advice through this Council that would make the whole process a lot easier and quicker.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:06:04
Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 1:06:07
I have a recommendation if you would like to accept one now. Thank you, Chair. I notethat in the next topic on our agenda we'll be looking at things to do with finance and
matters to do with how to manage and to balance our budget,
including vacancy management and so forth.
So further investment, it's recommendations to the cabinet.
Under those circumstances, I think that we recognize
from the extent of this conversation
that this is a valuable service that is being done.
So the recommendation could be along the following lines.
that we recognise that the work that's being done in this field is important work of the
District Council and therefore we would in general as a principle endorse the continued
support of it. And as such we would ask the Cabinet to ensure that we have an investigative
of process that tests the value of what we are doing and then does its best to continue
financial support on the work. I'm sure that could be expressed more succinctly if I had
thought about it beforehand.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:07:33
Thank you. I know these things are on the hoof. Andrew, we haven't quite got the sameour team as we had before, of all Claire, have you got any thoughts on the recommendation, how we could work it?
For me I think the key bit was the last point which was an ask of cabinet,
Andrew Brown, Officer - 1:07:52
and I didn't quite catch everything you said, sorry, but it was about having a process which tests the value of the work the council is doing.Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 1:07:59
I can reconfirm that. What I'm saying is obviously, just to explain, I'm saying we're not just spending money willy -nilly,Obviously, it's got to be done responsibly.
But given what we're encouraging is that cabinet ensures that there is a careful consideration
with a view to positive ongoing investment in this field.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:08:25
Hello.Whether Andrew and everybody is happy with this.
It is quite, this is the nature of it, trying to get these recommendations put up and being together on the hoof as it is.
And I'm sure we can put that through.
Do you want to read it out to me, the suggestion, and then we can vote on the recommendation?
Andrew Brown, Officer - 1:08:48
I mean, I think if the committee is happy with the thrust of the recommendation,we can come up with a form of words to run by yourself, Chair, after the meeting.
Would that be easiest?
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:09:00
Right, I think we're all in agreement with that, so thank you, yes, and I think there'sa good way of putting these, because otherwise you put the words together too quickly, you
need a little bit more thought, I will have a look at it, I might even share it with you,
Councillor Jenkinson, and see that you're content with it. So thank you for that.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:09:19
Now, sorry, I don't know why I'm turning myself off. We have gone on to number 10, which is10 Publica Transition Update
public a transition report and we have yes that that is it
Councillor David Cunningham - 1:09:43
sorry madam chair perhaps if Andrew could circulate it to the O &S committeeand we can agree the wording and then all go back and say we're happy with it
That would count as a positive vote.
Thank you, Councillor Cunningham.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:09:54
Yes, this next one was going to be interested, I thought we might have Joe Harris here, he's obviously not here.And Rob Weaver. But I do see that we've got Andrew Pollard.
And I also want to say thank you very much for your time seeding and for giving us such clear answers.
Thank you.
So, Andrew Pollard, oh sorry, you were sitting over here earlier.
No, no, no, you moved.
I wondered where you got.
Following your example, David, you worked for years.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:10:40
So this is on the public transition report phase 1.It's a verbal update.
There are no papers with this, but please, I'm
sure people, all people present will
be very happy to take questions after they've given the report.
Thank you.
Thank you, chair.
Happy New Year, members.
CEO Rob Weaver - 1:10:59
For those I haven't wished Happy New Year to, hopefully we'll have a good Christmasbreak.
Matt is going to share, we've got a very short slide deck you'll be pleased to hear, but
Matt's going to share those slides for you all now and we'll quickly run through that.
Once I've gone through the slides, we'll open it up for any questions and obviously you've
got Andrew here as well.
So just as a quick recap, the purpose of this session, hopefully, is to spend a bit of time
talking about lessons learned, what went well, what we might need to consider in a slightly
different way for phase two.
So we've tried to encapsulate in quite a short slide deck a very intensive busy period of
service reviewing
And clearly what we've done is focused on some of the highlights and I'll talk about some of the highs and lows
It would also be very useful for me in particular
To get your thoughts as members if you've heard anything from any officers about what's gone
Well or not gone so well, please do feed that back because I'm conscious that sometimes you're picking up intelligence that
myself or Andrew might not. So the good news is phase one has now landed. It transitioned
on technically on the 1st of November but our new welcome date was the 4th of November
which was the Monday. 1st of November was the Friday at the end of half term so we didn't
think that was the best day but that was the date that the programme team had very much
been working to. And the council is now operating so I have now got some staff which is great
and the first group of staff, including planning, tourism, economic development, parts of communities,
have now all come across and those teams are now embedded within the council, which is
great news.
So it's no rest for the wicked and what we're asking the programme team to do now is start
to plan and to phase and to think about phase two.
So phase two, you'll recall, was the majority of the rest of the services that were envisaged
to come across to the council as per the human engine report
has endorsed by the local partnerships report
back in summer, autumn of last year.
And a lot of that work is now going to be quicker
and slicker and smoother because a lot of the groundwork
that was needed for phase one has been done.
So one of the low lights, if you like,
or one of the areas that caused us,
or a couple of areas that caused us some problems
which we've certainly been reflecting on,
is around communication and building the financial modelling.
Communications, I think, were difficult because we were relying on a small, limited public communications team
to help us land the messages around this service review.
And in hindsight, I think it would have been better to put some more resource
and possibly brought some council -side resource into supporting those key messages.
for a number of reasons.
I mentioned the limited size of the communications team
that we're able to support with the transition.
But also, I think the reality of the fact that it was a public
communications team that we were asking, or asking us to support,
a council transition.
And what I guess that meant in a nutshell was there was quite a
lot of refining of some of the messages from the CEOs and some
of the statutory officers, because we wanted to make sure
the messaging was objective and with the messaging we were getting out was promoting the positives
around a service review as much as some of the challenges and uncertainty. And at times
it was difficult using the public communications team to get those messages just right.
I think one of the other things which we underestimated was the building of a financial model that
set out what the cost of the public service was to us service by service. Now we know
what the public had cost us as a contract and a commission, what we didn't have as much
information on as would have been handy in the beginning was around how much the planning
team were costing us to service, how much the communications team or the tourism team
were costing. So the programme team did a lot of work with the 151 officers from each
council to essentially build from scratch a financial model that enabled us to then
do further modelling around what the costs of each of those services when we brought
them back would be. Now that's one of the areas which will clearly be a lot quicker
now that that's been done for phase one, but it was something which I think we underestimated
just how much work was going to be required in terms of building up that model.
Next slide please. So one of the, we had our peer review feedback survey as you'll be aware
recently and one of the things that the peer review team told us about or talked to us
about as one of the recommendations was continue to get feedback from staff about what's working,
what isn't working and how you can continually refine the processes.
So one of the things we're going to be doing to honour that commitment is we'll be launching
shortly an employee survey asking for their experiences around a range of questions around
how phase one works and how it landed and how it felt for them.
And the broad categories, and there are several questions under each of these categories,
will ask them how their general experience was with the transition.
Did it go well?
Did it go smoothly?
Did they have enough communication?
How were the managers that were responsible for supporting them as part of the transition?
Did you, in terms of your well -being and support, have enough access to HR if you had any difficult
questions?
Was there any questions at public email address that we set up that each of the CEOs had access
to and responding to, was that enough, should we go further, did it hit the mark in terms
of the FAQs and getting their thoughts on whether they had the support that they needed.
Asking them around the role in terms of the clarity and reporting lines. So we did a lot
of modelling at the outset and shared that with teams about how they would be essentially
incorporated into the new council structure and we want to make sure that through that
survey we did enough communication around that, whether that was clear.
So I think this will be really powerful in terms of helping me and also the program office
in terms of how we make sure we've got this right for phase two.
So I'd say that will be launching imminently via the CDC portal, which was another new
part of the transition.
So we've now got our own staffing portal.
We're not reliant on the Publica portal.
And that just provides us with more of a platform to be able to get some of our key messages
out that are near and dear to the council rather than being Publica -wide.
So that's something which we are going to be launching soon.
The other thing in terms of some of the areas that could have worked well...
Go to the next slide, please, Matt.
So we set up an officer transition board, OTB, and that officer transition board was...
And I'll come onto a slide which sets out a bit of the structure in a second.
Actually, I'll do that.
If you want to take me onto the next slide, Matt, I'll talk through both of these.
So in terms of the current governance arrangements, the Office of Transition Board, you can see
there in the middle blue column, is essentially the mechanism by which the chief executives
were asking, sharing and informing the programme office, and it was an opportunity for the
Office of Transition Board that included both council and public senior managers to essentially
agree the direction of travel.
And one of the things which has been a challenge, but I think we've done successfully, and that
we'll need to continue to do into phase two, is keep each of the councils going forward
on a straight line.
And that's been difficult because clearly when you've got three councils, three administrations,
three groups of 151s, three groups of lawyers, you get a lot of different views about what
the priorities may or may not be.
And the CEOs have worked very closely with the project office to make sure that we are
collectively agreeing on what those next phases need to look like.
And the officer transition board provided a really good opportunity to do that.
At the bottom of that blue column you can see their partnership work streams.
So we set up...
Actually you can't see it.
Can you not see it on there?
You can't read it.
I think that's the idea to be honest.
I can read it.
I'm not showing officers' homework.
Anybody else?
It's not the correct prescription.
Who went to spec sailors?
So the box at the very bottom of that blue column says partnership work streams, HR,
legal, finance and comms. The reason for putting that up is because a work stream was created
around each of those key areas and they were responsible for answering some of the queries
or questions that the officer transition board threw up and feeding those back into the officer
transition board cycle, but also supporting the programme team with what we refer to as
a hub and spoke model. So with a small and a finite resource around the programme team,
the benefits of being able to farm out some of these queries and questions to the 151s
or the MOs or whichever group it might be, meant that we could do a lot of that work
offline and then feed that back in, which meant that we could keep the frequency of
meetings quick and we could focus on some of the key areas.
Could you just tell us what BAU is?
Business as usual.
Oh, business as usual. Thank you.
So those hub -and -spoke models have worked well to a point.
I think what we will need to do as part of phase two is continually refine those.
So again, as is often the case, there was a bit of some mixed messaging
where some requests had gone to one of the work streams.
The work streams were considering other issues that fell out of some of those questions that
meant that you actually got three or four answers back to one question.
What we've decided we need to do a bit more in terms of phase two is be really clear on
getting from the work streams what they see as some of the key challenges, but making
sure that the programme office are really clear in terms of the questions that are being
asked in order to make sure that we're not getting those mixed messages.
But clearly the hub and spoke model has worked well and we are not in the position where
we're going to be able to increase the resource within the programme office, that much is
clear, so that hub and spoke model is going to be what sees us through for phase two.
Do you want to ask a question, Cheryl?
I've got a bit closer, I can't really see you.
Councillor David Fowles - 1:21:25
I just wanted, well if you could just, in the blue column, could you just explain themake up of the shareholder forum, the council's program board and the office transition board,
just so we know what each of those comprise?
Yes, no problem.
Thank you.
Good question.
CEO Rob Weaver - 1:21:39
So the shareholder forum is the leaders of each council and the CEOs, the leaders ofeach council.
So this is the public shareholder forum.
So that's the leaders of each council plus the CEOs and there's often members of the
public or executive that will come along as observers.
The Council's programme board is Andrew and the Chief Executives.
The Officer Transition Board is that group plus David is a first amongst equals from the 151 camp
and anybody else that we would need to invite to support either the programme or the officers at that meeting.
So the Collective Officer Transition Board is the CEOs, the programme team and David.
Frank, sorry.
Two and three are just three to our students.
This is the same model that each of the councils put into place, but the council's program board will be the CEOs of each of the councils plus Andrew.
So it's a mechanism by which we can thrash out some of the theories or principles about where we might want to share services or where we might want very much to have a sovereign service before we get into the detail of that at the office of transition board level.
So yeah, I think in terms of time scales and budget, we have still got a fair amount in
our transition budget.
So each of the councils put half a million pounds into a transition budget and we have
still got plenty in the pot, which is good news.
In terms of time scales around phase one, we were originally hoping that we would be
able to land phase one in October.
But because of the summer months and the need to do a
big, cheapy consultation with staff, that unfortunately
slipped to November.
But I think from October to November in light of the
summer months for that cheapy discussion, I'm
certainly quite pleased that we've pretty much stayed on
track in terms of timescale and we're still coming in
under budget.
Employee turnover has also been very low.
One of the initial risks that we were all concerned about was
will we see a mass exodus of staff who were uncertain
about their future.
We've not seen that, which is great.
So we're going to make sure that it's part of phase two.
Hopefully those communications will continue to make sure that
staff do feel that they've definitely got a future with CDC
and will be managing that process.
In terms of next steps, we are obviously going to be bringing
a report to the March overview and scrutiny committee and then March cabinet and council
which will set out the detailed transition plan for phase two and we're on track to be
able to honour that commitment and the plan will be that the services or the priority
services identified within phase two will be done by the 1st of July 2025. So the priority
service areas, just to remind you, includes program management, waste and recycling, and
property.
Those are the key, three key areas, along with some of the low -hanging fruit around
things like our careline service, that we'll be looking to land as part of phase two.
The other thing I would say is clearly the government's white paper on devolution throws
a slight spanner in the works in relation to our process of repatriation, because clearly
we're all going to have to go through a very big process of repatriation over the next few years anyway.
So what we've started to do now as part of the program board and the officer transition board is say well look
where those services are very much shared
intrinsically across three or more councils, so it's the three councils plus potentially Cheltenham,
let's just take a bit of time to review and consider our options there because the last thing we want to do is spend lots
of time and money
unpacking a service now if we find that the whole thing is going to be unpacked
at a much greater level in two years time. So we're pretty clear that
property program management which is about five or six staff responsible for
programs across the piece and waste and recycling are critical areas that we do
need to get landed now regardless of whatever happens but those other services
we'll need to consider. I can't go into more detail because it's very early
doors, but I think suffice to say that we just need to think carefully about how far
that second phase transition goes in light of that devolution white paper.
So that was it from me.
I'll pause at that point.
What would be helpful, Chair, if you're okay, is if before we open it up for questions,
and there may or may not be any, but I'd be really interested to hear from members of
whether they've heard anything from staff, good, bad or indifferent, about the transition,
because I know you sometimes get the ear of staff or intelligence that we don't always.
Thank you.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:26:27
Well, yes, I will ask our members here, have you got any of this, any sort of discussionsor chats that you have had with things and feeling how they were going, which may be
helpful. Does anybody want to volunteer any information on this?
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:26:48
Yes, we've lost a lot of people in democratic services, we wish them well in their new jobs,we do miss them. If you're out there listening to us today, we'd love to hear. But was there
anything that, if not, is there anybody who'd like questions? Councillor Fowle's like to
kick off.
Councillor David Fowles - 1:27:06
Well, just to clarify, I haven't heard anything.Certainly nothing negative.
Nothing positive.
The question I had, which is if you're in phase two and you've
got colleagues and friends who are in phase one,
you've commented on the fact that the turnover is a lot lower
than you had anticipated, but are you getting any sense that
there's a level of frustration that people who are still in
public are keen to come across sooner rather than later.
And are members of staff impacted upon negatively as a result of being in phase two as opposed
to phase one?
Because there are certain benefits about returning to the council.
Is there a sort of levelling up process that, for example, pensions, or does it kick in
as and when you join or rejoin?
There's two parts to that question.
CEO Rob Weaver - 1:28:05
Yes, if I take a bit of that off, I'll see if there's a program team perspective on that.So it was always the case that we'd need to do things in phases, and I think that's accepted across the board.
Yes, I'm sure that there are... So one of the things which we've been really keen to do from the outset is make sure that we continue to work really closely with those staff in publica, so we don't create a them and us culture.
That was never the intention and that is a risk of a transition like this.
But clearly what we need to do is balance that against the direction of travel that I've been set by cabinet here
in terms of what we want to do and how we could be more fleet afoot by doing that on a Cotswold only basis.
So whilst I do expect if you ask staff that they would say yes we've seen a difference,
we are now aware of some of the changes that have been put in place.
they would see that there was no detrimental impact on them working with their publicer colleagues.
So I think if you probably asked staff they'd say, I'm looking slightly enviously at colleagues who have gone across to the councils.
And in some cases there are some publicer staff who are more than happy remaining with them publicly and doing what they're doing.
I don't know whether it's widely held that people are saying we're chomping at the bit to be part of phase two repatriation
Or whether they're simply waiting for that process to play out
But the key thing for me and the other CEOs and the program team is making sure that we don't create a them and us culture
Which we're working very hard with Frank and others and public to do to make sure we don't
Yeah, well there are I mean there are benefits clearly the main benefit of being repatriated to council is the local government pension
and again I would be very surprised if there aren't some staff thinking okay that's an attractive proposition I don't get that currently working for public health.
Just to be specific, your benefits change when you transition across, it isn't back dated so there's a sort of mark in the sounds that every, it kicks off at phase one, it's always when you transfer across.
That's what I was trying to count on.
Okay.
Andrew, is there anything from the program office on that?
Or Doug, Phil?
No, I mean, I'm just one other person.
CEO Rob Weaver - 1:30:19
Yeah, I guess it's been known for some 14 months nowthat this program was going to be phased,
and 14 months ago is when the human -enduring report came
forward around November 2023.
So it was always known there was going to be a phasing based
on council priorities at the time.
And so I think that phasing goes back to priority.
It also goes back to the point Rob's made
about the white papers.
So the reason that phase two is being considered
very carefully now is what advantages
that can still be from another phase of the transition
in the light of what is to come in maybe
two, three years time.
It's used to have priorities to deliver on
and there are still advantages to be had.
But they need to be quantified.
They need to be measured.
They need to be understood.
And that's why it's taking a little time to do it in terms of employees
I think there's a tipping point to all of these things so to begin with I sensed coming in when I did at the end of
January
Nervousness and concern and the spam to be that because the detail wasn't fleshed out
Then you get that point where people do move and they see other people moving and they gain confidence in that and they can gain
understanding from that and they see that the councils have handled this in a compassionate way which they have and
and they see the benefits of it.
And the other benefit, apart from pensions,
is the ability to work locally, in your locality,
with your community.
That is a benefit.
In fact, you're then much closer,
much more attached to your people.
And that has developed to the point now
where I think the early concerns have been replaced by,
actually, it's all right here, it's pretty good here,
and actually we'd like to join Cotswold too.
So that it has been a sea change
from where I've stood and seen this.
And that's been very encouraging and that's I think down to the fact that this has always been designed as the council's program
It's your program
It's why the structure of the governance is designed with that in mind with the council's program board
All linked in across the piece. So you have a vertical the horizontal link across
This is your program and my job is to help facilitate that and that's what I've tried to do
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:32:28
Thank you. I have got Councillor Spivey next and then we will put Van Waring and Neil.Councillor Lisa Spivey - 1:32:34
Thank you. I would like to pick up on the devolution and local government reorganisationagenda which I would say contrary to the chair I think is absolutely inevitable and going
to be happening. There is no two ways about it. We are most definitely on a track of unitarising
in one form or another.
Given that and the timescales which have been put out
in that white paper,
are you doing some kind of cost -benefit analysis,
et cetera, in a report?
Because I know that you say that phase two
should be happening now and be completed by July of this year.
Noting that even when those who will,
are currently part of publica, will in some way or another become part of Gloucestershire
unitary authority, whether that's East, West or whole, who knows, in the next two to three
years. So will that still be worth doing, I guess? That's one question. And the second
one is we've often talked about sharing services with West Oxfordshire. It now looks very unlikely
that we will be forming any kind of unitary authority,
certainly with them and even the next step
in terms of devolution of strategic authorities.
To my knowledge at the moment,
it looks very unlikely that we would be forming
any kind of partnership with the Oxfordshire Council.
Would that mean then still that we would still see a benefit
of sharing some services with West Oxfordshire?
CEO Rob Weaver - 1:34:14
Yes, so I'll start on this and then I'll hand over to Andrew.I agree entirely, it's just a matter of time and we need to start preparing for that.
And it's a case of making sure that any work we currently do now is not simply going to
be unpicked straight away two years down the line.
And that's where that cost benefit analysis comes in.
And each of the councils have agreed that those three key areas in phase two are still
very much important as part of phase one.
UBICO is our second biggest contract spend, as you know,
after Publica, so it makes sense for us to ensure that we've got
robust arrangements in place with our waste and recycling.
So that's clearly why that one is in the mix.
Project management, again, it's a kid.
Everything we do needs a project manager,
so we need to look at the cost -benefit analysis there.
And you're right.
There's a southeast -southwest.
It is highly unlikely that if you're in the Oxfordshire area,
you will be looking across to Gloucestershire
in terms of either unitary or a combined authority.
You're going to be looking elsewhere.
So that's one of the rationales for saying,
okay, let's just take a bit of time to pause
on whether we just simply consider continuing sharing with West
in the current vein, or whether we have any focused approach
to do sharing now that may become defunct in a couple of years' time. So I think in
the short term we'll continue to share with West, but I agree with you I don't think that
as part of the unitary combined authority discussions there's going to be much mileage
in that boundary which will become more East -West.
I agree. Andrew, is there anything you need to add to that?
Thank you. I've now got Councillor van Buren.
Yes, in phase 1, 14 vacancies, six covered, therefore the balance, there is a shortage
of staff and eight.
And I don't know what level would be helpful to them, but what level
Councillor Michael Vann - 1:36:21
they could be in generalterms.
But when things change, as they did first November, fourth November, lunch year, supplied, clear signs of a change, what impact does that have on staff?
It makes people think about it. Things that they're prepared to carry on with is all part of the public scheme.
It is a bit different when you are eight light.
I think in terms of the welcome session,
CEO Rob Weaver - 1:36:57
which I know a lot of members were able to attend,that was great.
We talked about the emerging people strategy
that we are looking to put in place now.
We have had an opportunity for every member of staff
that was repatriated to part of phase 1
to be involved in focus groups around them
setting out what their visions and behaviours
and views are on the council
and how we can make sure that we're including that in terms of our people's strategy that's
going forward.
So there was definitely a buzz about the fourth, I agree with you.
There was very much an air of anticipation, what does this now look like?
We've now got more of a direct voice into some of the senior managers that we didn't
have before and ultimately they will now be able to serve the businesses and residents
of the Cotswolds in a way that is very different from how they did that under Publica as a
shared service model.
One of the things the original peer review highlighted 12 or so months ago was that amongst
staff there was a bit of an identity crisis and staff didn't know whether they were a
publicer employee but a planner working for Cotswold District Council and yet in some
cases they had a public or email address and when they were explaining that to businesses
or residents they were talking to even they were getting confused.
So I think now that repatriation has taken place to some extent it is assisting in dissolving
that identity crisis that was part of the issue that we had forward.
In terms of the vacancies, I mean, again, I picked up and heard from the earlier conversations
how there is always going to be a challenge about where we put more resource with very
limited resources, and whether it is conservation, whether it is climate change, whether it is
planning, housing, finance, there's always going to be a balance about where we put those
resources.
What the review gives us more scope to do, one of the primary reasons for doing it, was
that we're more in control of setting our financial destiny in terms of where we want
to put that money.
So that will be a big help, I think, in terms of not only retaining staff, but meaning that
we can be a bit more fleet of foot when we see vacancies appearing in terms of filling
those.
Thank you.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:39:02
I have Councillor Waring.Councillor Jon Wareing - 1:39:05
It's following on really from Councillor Spivey's question, but are we in a position to defendthe transition on a cost -benefit basis given the three -year max probably lifetime of CDC?
Because I think residents are going to be asked, I mean I've already had somebody sort
of badger me and say well this looks a great decision.
Not.
So I think we need to be in a position to be able to handle
that sort of question.
Yeah, absolutely.
CEO Rob Weaver - 1:39:35
And that, again, was another of the conversation that we werehaving when the white paper came out.
We will still need to provide business as usual services in a
lot of those areas.
We've repatriated phase one, and that's worked well,
and I think it is going to prove,
it's going to provide dividends in terms of how we do what we
need to do and how we commit to the corporate plan.
But you're absolutely right.
what we now need to do is just take stock on phase two and assess that benefit analysis
of going much beyond those three key priority areas within phase two.
And that's what we're in the current processes of doing.
Again I'm really mindful that we need to think about the messaging and the communications
with staff on that.
Maybe there will be staff watching this thinking okay, what does that mean for me in phase
two?
So I don't really want to go into too much detail here because I want to make sure that
if we are coming to those decisions and looking at doing that, that we're communicating that
at the right time and the right way to staff. But you're absolutely right, it would make
no sense at all now continuing to land phase two as it was initially set out in the human
engine report in light of the white paper. We may go beyond some of those three priority
areas, we may not, but what we're doing now is just taking stock to make sure it makes
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:40:55
sense to do that. Thank you. Councillor Neill. Yes, during theCouncillor Dilys Neill - 1:40:59
repatriation process wasthere any difficulty in deciding who should go, which member of staff should
go to which council or did it all just fall naturally into place? That was the first question.
CEO Rob Weaver - 1:41:13
So the vast majority of phase one, phase one you were concerned about, was a chirpy transfer of staff.So staff who were performing a role for an identified council previously, and they may well have previously performed that role for the same council,
and who are then going to go on post phase to perform that role for this council, or one of the others.
So one of the early steps, I guess, in the program planning
was to work out who was doing what where and how could you
justify a transition across under Chupy, because those are
the principles that apply to Chupy.
And, you know, we didn't have that data immediately to hand,
but we were able to develop that data and build that data
in a way that was robust and was assured, and we were able
to take the view that Chupy applied to the majority
of these roles as they fell.
There were some roles, a very small minority where you couldn't say that, where the roles
were split across different councils and you couldn't sort of pigeonhole or put somebody
into a particular council.
And those roles then were advertised internally and people applied for those roles.
But in the vast majority of cases, you know, certainly somewhere around 80 to 90 percent,
nearer 90 than 80 I would put it.
Those roles then just transition across into two fields.
And then you have a structure that is appropriate
under the law and you follow that process
and it followed through.
We've had no challenges to that.
And that's a really good aspect.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 1:42:57
And Rob, you said now, I've got some people working for me.Do you feel that sort of changed your relationship
with the staff? Do you feel that you know them better or that there's a better
role of easier for them to communicate with you or that they know understand
CEO Rob Weaver - 1:43:13
who they've got to speak to? Yeah absolutely I mean and again in the sameway that the staff now have less of an identity crisis I don't need to worry
about treading on public executives toes. Clearly the staff weren't mine so I was
regularly dialed and don't get me wrong it wasn't an issue I was in regular
contact with the MD and Frank and others around how we did some joint sessions
around staff development but it is now far easier to directly communicate with
the staff that have come across. Yes, thank you.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:43:45
Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 1:43:48
Councillor Jenkinson. Thank you, Chair. First of all I'd like to thank AndrewPollard for the work you've done on this matter and of course the support team
that worked with you.
So there were a certain amount of concerns about doom and gloom
and vast expenses.
And no doubt there will be issues.
But in some ways, it's gone better
than some people forecast.
And I had some concerns about it.
And it seems to have gone relatively well.
So that's good.
And I want to recognize that.
On this particular subject, when the welcome event took place, there was language along the lines of take back control.
I'm not sure that was really the most helpful language to use in this particular situation.
And given that what it implies is that we, well, I'm not sure I want to go into why it is not the right language,
but I don't think it's the right language.
What I think does belong to our culture at its best
is a collaborative working relationship between people,
rather than a controlling relationship between people.
And with that in mind, I wanted to bring
a few small questions.
First, in the conversations that I did have in the working group
that was formed, there was a discussion along the lines of the long -term potential of Publica
as a tech -all company, or the existence of a tech -all company for commercial activities,
that there were certain focused services that could be done and that those focused services
could provide commercially relevant services.
Is that still under consideration?
Has proper consideration been given to that opportunity with this resource that was set
up in order to give it a future?
And do you think that might still be possible in a unitary and notwithstanding a unitary
environment?
That's the first question.
Well, thank you.
Actually, I'm sorry, if you could just turn your thing off.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:46:03
If you'd like to give all your questions and then we answer it all together, I think thatwould be best.
Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 1:46:08
I can, but I've noticed everybody asks them one at a time.I think they've come up with secondaries.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:46:13
But yes, I just feel that we've got time.We've got ten minutes until we do have a break.
I'll remind you as I go along.
Unless you really feel that they've got to be answered,
the question may change from the answer before,
but unless that's absolutely, it would be quite useful to have all three,
or is it four, together?
Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 1:46:36
I'm sure that the people I'm asking the question of will have a better memory of my questionsthan I would have if they were being asked to me.
So moving on to the next question.
In the process of moving some people already in phase one and some people in phase two,
but in the context in which we are expecting a move towards a unitary environment, there
is an issue that I think needs consideration, and that's the question of fair treatment.
If certain people have come across in phase one and they therefore had the benefit of
Chupi and they're part of it, and in the event of unitary there would be some process presumably
taken care of in order to support that, in which there might be a differential between
individuals who are still in the Tekel company publica and those people who have already
crossed across to the district under Chupi.
In that situation there could be a concern from our point of view in wanting to be fair to all of the people who have been working with us as to how they are treated into the future.
And so my next question is concerned with are we taking that into account in our planning.
The question that follows that is, do you think it is likely that Cotswolds District
as part of Gloucestershire will remain a unit?
Because looking at the North Cotswolds, I could see that North Cotswolds might find
it much easier to be connected to one of the areas to the north or east of us than to be
connected to, say, Bristol or something like that, which has been proposed. So how do you
see that playing out? Are we a single unit that is going to go into some kind of bigger
single unit?
And final question is, one of the matters that was discussed in the separate committee
session and here was the question of using the opportunity to move people across to then
be able to focus on better working methods, improve systems, improve processes and so on.
I wonder if you could give us some feedback on where you are on that objective. Thank you.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:48:55
I don't know, you both will probably come in with part of the answers. Thank you.CEO Rob Weaver - 1:49:03
All right.I don't know.
No, so the first one, technical trading.
So phase one has defined rather more what Publica does than previously was the case.
Phase two, assuming there's approval to it, will define Publica a little more.
If you take the human engine view of phase two, which is the only published thing so far,
Essentially that would leave Publica with a whole lot of support services.
ICT, finance, administration and so forth.
Services that actually, if you look at it, you could package up and sell those more widely in a defined way.
In a way that's recognised as such.
Now, to make that happen, there has to be a conversation with all of those governance points that were shown in that schedule, doesn't there?
so the shareholder forum, board, board of publica,
and actually the management team
who would potentially deliver such a thing.
And at the moment, there isn't a business plan,
whether brought forward by management
or whether requested by shareholder that does such things.
I guess what I'm saying here is,
in answer to your question, Councillor,
that the potential of course exists,
but it requires a little more definition
to what publica could be and then some impetus in bringing forward a plan that is possible, certainly.
Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 1:50:51
So am I right in saying that you note that there is potential,but so far the people who would have the authority to consider that have not taken the step to choose to do so.
CEO Rob Weaver - 1:51:05
So that hasn't been brought forward, but I also have to stress that it's beyond the remitof the programme office, because the programme office is attached to delivering the programme.
Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 1:51:16
Was exactly explicit in my question.CEO Rob Weaver - 1:51:20
So if I try to take the rest, just to build on that one, Publica was set up as a potentialtrading company.
To date, there's been very little interest from any of the councils in actively exploring
that trading mechanism.
I think it's very much a change picture since 2017, which went publically when it was first
set up, versus now.
When public was first set up, outsourcing was all the rage, and I think there was aspirations
then that other councils would buy into the public model on a commercial basis.
Clearly, what we've seen since then is the polar opposite, and insourcing has become
all the rage.
and councils and tech companies are very much looking at making sure that they are using
their limited resources to best effect. So never say never, but at the moment I think
Andrew is absolutely right. We've got other things to consider before we look to push
the trading element of Publica where there isn't that political desire really to do so
at this point. I think just quickly in terms of the other points, yeah absolutely, any
Any process, I mean it's not for me to say, we need to see how this plays out, but any
process of major local government reorganisation is going to need to put its employees at the
heart of everything it does.
Any new unitary authority will, I would imagine, have similar terms and conditions to other
local authorities which could see the wholesale introduction of LGPS to a lot of staff who
don't currently get it.
A local government pension scheme, sorry.
The other question around improved, two questions, one was early days.
So your third question I've noted down early days.
Can you remind me of the key part of that question?
The third question was actually about changing over to being a unitary.
Okay, yeah, that's fine. That's what we've covered.
And improved systems, yeah, so some good examples of that.
So you'll be able to...
We haven't.
I think we have because it would be, it's early days in terms of the process
of considering what local government reorganisation
would look like.
And as I say, any considerations and consultations with staff
that would need to play out would need to make sure
that they were absolutely putting staff
at heart of what they've done.
But there is a question you've missed.
Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 1:53:34
But I'll bring it back afterwards.CEO Rob Weaver - 1:53:37
The last one.Yeah, the last one I've got is improving systems
and what we're doing around that.
So a good example of that would be the planning case management
system which for one reason or another, and it wouldn't be appropriate to go into detail,
has stalled and its update has been pretty heavily reliant on updates across the paste.
What we've now got is an opportunity to get a case management system in place that works
purely for CDC and puts at the heart of what we're trying to do some of that automation
process which we've struggled to do. So that's a conversation I'm currently having with the
interim head of planning services.
That I think is just one example where hopefully it will be
easier to put systems in place than it has been in the past.
That would be fantastic.
Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 1:54:24
I mean, that's a key area for clearly for improvement.So terrific.
So to the earlier point, while I take the,
while I accept that there are aspects of what you were saying
about the tech hall and the set up that obviously must be right,
It's also the case that TACAL's where they were set up with a focused intention and a clear purpose,
and they were clear about what they were doing and providing that service,
could work very successfully and approved to be working very successfully.
And that's a very different model from a process of setting up to do everything
and to save costs on pension as a primary benefit.
We didn't set it up as a commercial operation.
There is now an opportunity to at least consider that,
And what I would be just concerned about is that we, by failing to analyse that opportunity,
we miss out on something and come to regret it later on.
And so I'm asking whether it's possible to put that on the agenda, to actually take that into account.
And by all means, if it is rejected, let it be rejected.
But let it be consciously rejected, having looked at the facts and the potential that's there.
That would be my encouragement to you. I'm not going to bring it as a general recommendation.
The question that was missing was about whether you see that Cotswold District will be a unit that will go somewhere,
or whether, in fact, the way the geographies might work, it might look at the fact and say,
well, gee, this bit of it needs to go there and that bit needs to go there.
Just a straightforward, what's your best guess?
CEO Rob Weaver - 1:56:03
Yes, so I think it would be very, very difficult for part of a district to decide to crossan administrative boundary into another area and form an alliance or coalition with a different
county.
The coterminosity, which is a fancy word for saying everything in Gloucestershire aligns
quite nicely with health, with police, with fire, with county, means that in principle
Gloucestershire is very well placed to look at a single unitary model.
And if it was to explore those areas, then clearly that would need to be discussed in the broader context for Gloucestershire.
Where the conversations are at the moment is really still trying to unpack the detail in the white paper.
But the conversations we're having now is, okay, what could this look like for Gloucestershire?
Is it a single unitary? Is it two unitaries?
If that's not a misnomer of the term, what might those look like?
And where may there be other counties or regions that would be interested
in what Gloucestershire has to offer? Because don't forget, it's not just around the creation of a unitary.
The government's proposal, that's the first phase, but then the government's proposal is also set out
that each area would need to become part of either a strategic area,
more commonly known as a combined authority.
So the first phase would be saying,
what does the unitary model look like for Gloucestershire?
Then we've got to do some work to establish
which combined authority we may well want to become part of.
So it's a very complex and time -consuming process
to do that, but what we would want to be doing
in the first instance is putting forward the benefits
to Gloucestershire as a whole
without looking to run the risk of fragmentation.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:57:51
Thank you for that.And actually, although Councillor Spivey thinks I'm against, which I'm not actually, that
the unitary, all these changes in government, but I can see it's going to be very complex
and take a long time, and I'd like it to be done to be effective and good.
And I personally would like it, I personally am more pro just being Gloucestershire, because
obviously this is where I live, and going further down to Bristol from Tripping Cound
and it looks like almost the foot of Cornwall, but not entirely.
But you've got to have an effective local government.
And we've got to, there's not just this area, but the whole country.
There are going to be different views and different things and other combinations.
So I know the speed of these things.
It doesn't always go as fast as that.
So whilst I think we have got to look and be very mindful of it,
going to be going, we have in them between then and now,
could make sure that this council does the best thing for the residents of the
Cotswolds and that's really what is most important to me. So Rob did you want to
Councillor David Fowles - 1:58:56
add anything else? Oh, Councillor Fowles. I just like to say in terms of getting an update onPublica if we start to disappear into the realms of what's going to happen
with or without the unitary we could be here all night. That's not a criticism of
my colleague, I'm just saying that we all have different views and our heads will spin
even more. The question I was going to ask, Chairman, is in relation to the next report,
there are two items on there on page 24 that seem to me to relate to this topic and I just
wondered if I would be allowed to refer to that or not. The item that says there has
been a net underspend on the public contract sum of £82 ,000, page 24. Can I take that
The next report or this report?
Could you take that now?
And the second one is in relation to the staffing right at the bottom, additional recruitment costs.
We need to do the two hour vote Madam Chair.
Councillor Fales, apart from in your...
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:59:55
We're coming up for the two hours.Actually not quite because we started late but anyway it is coming up conveniently for two hours.
If we could actually have the questions and we will know them.
But we will be discussing those in that part of the.
And I'll be both state for that.
Right.
OK, thank you.
Now, is everybody happy for us to now have a comfort break
of five or 10 minutes?
How long?
Five, five.
Is everybody happy for that?
Thank you.
Five minutes break.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
10 Publica Transition Update
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:05:03
our Section 1 .1 officer and Deputy Chief Executive.11 Financial Performance Report 2024-25 Quarter Two and Update Report
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:05:10
If my worthy colleague is missing,does it mean that he's unable to vote,
Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 2:05:18
should there be a vote later on,because he's missed part of this session?
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:05:23
As I understand it, the only place where that happensis in planning, and other than that it's not relevant.
Thank you.
But he is back now, or is on his way back.
I wanted to draw the members of the committee attention to the recommendations detailed
in paragraph 6 .2 and 9 .3 to 9 .9, which were approved at the cabinet meeting in December.
We can add any of our recommendations to these.
As originally this was going to be looked at by cabinet in January, it was moved backwards
to December, which is why it's sort of in the wrong way around for overview and scrutiny,
but we can still call in anything and we can make recommendations. So don't let that hold
you back. David Stanley has also added an update regarding the budget for the planning
services, so that didn't go before Cabinet.
That is new papers.
So, David, would you like to kick off?
Thank you, Chair.
I'll do a brief introduction, because I
David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 2:06:36
appreciate there is another agenda item that you maywant to get to.
This is a report in two parts.
So, the main bulk of the report, the first 50 pages
for the majority of the Q2 report that Cabinet
considered at their meeting in December with the second part of the report including planning
services which hadn't been considered in that initial report given the timeliness of recruitment
activity that was being undertaken at the time and wanting to do justice to that service
area and give members of cabinet and this committee a good oversight of the expenditure
an income position for planning services, given its significance in the Phase 1 review.
But in terms of the overall position, the Q2 out -turn forecast as reported to Cabinet
December was forecasting a net surplus of 250 ,000.
So that's an adverse variation around 266 ,000, which is a slightly worse position that was
forecast in Q1, which was indicating a surplus
around 371 ,000.
It's important to note, though, that within that
headline position of a surplus of 250 ,000, there
is still scope to achieve the budgeted surplus of
over half a million because of the pay award being
agreed and settled at a lower rate.
So some of the inflationary provision that was
included in the 24 -25 budget would be moved
straight across into the financial resilience reserve
as around $400 ,000.
So when you add that to the projected surplus
on the revenue budget, although it was a lower amount,
you're still within the overall figure that Cabinet
and this council agreed when the budget was set
in February of 2024.
It's also important to note that the cost saving
from rezoning of waste and recycling has been achieved.
There has been some upfront cost associated with that
that was reported in Q1 and again in Q2.
But the full year impact of that half a million is sort
of nailed down in terms of the budget -setting process
and will be included in the MTFS going forward.
So alongside the reduced pressure on the pay award,
there was also some positive variation on the Treasury
management income that was reported.
So the Q1 forecast took a very prudent view as to the likelihood of interest rates remaining
high and did anticipate that they would come down quicker than they have.
So this Q2 report has forecast the Treasury management activities to the end of the year,
given the stickiness of interest rates.
So an overall additional 367 ,000 of Treasury management income has been forecast for the
year over and above the $1 .3 million that was
included in the budget.
So we're considering that over the longer term as in
terms of where we go with that forecast for the 25 -26
budget given, I suppose, the overall levels of
inflation that the government have reported or
the ONS have reported being slightly above the 2 percent
target and the likelihood it will be above the 2 percent
target for much of 25 -26.
So we're just reviewing that in terms of the longer -term impact.
The main Q2 report also picked up some income shortfalls across a number of service areas.
Whilst they weren't necessarily significant or material on their own when taken together,
it was a reasonable level of income shortfall across public conveniences, land charges,
cemeteries and building control that would need to be considered alongside the budget
setting process because not all of those would necessarily correct themselves in
the year and with no respect to land charges and building control there has
been some underperformance on income for a period of time. As the chair indicated
within the report within section 9 there are a series of recommendations that
were made and endorsed by cabinet around vacancy management consultants support
and the need to ensure that there were further cost savings and cost reductions
and savings coming forward and taking a longer term view on those.
In terms of the capital programme, very briefly, the capital programme is indicating quite
a significant underspend on three key areas.
I was reviewing this earlier, that's largely around the provision of affordable housing,
So the provision of a capital loan through to Cotsway has been at a lower level than
was forecast.
The support to Bronford for the affordable housing scheme is unlikely to be delivered
during the course of this financial year.
And there's some slight overspend on disabled facilities grants that was reported at the
time this report was drafted, given the uncertain position there was across the wider better
Care Fund of which DFGs are funded from at a county -wide level that's now being
reconciled with the county's position so we have got the 1 .7 million that is
available to us so that overspend in effect is removed because we have got
the additional allocation up to that level. In terms of the second part of the
report I'll probably pause there before you have sort of detailed questions on
planning because I appreciate there will be a lot to cover off.
But yeah, happy to take questions on the first part of the report.
Right, Councillor Cunning on the...
I'll just ask for a clarifying question.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:12:22
Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 2:12:23
There was a lot of detail there, thank you. Can you just clarify, my understanding is basically that this report has been superseded by new events in some level, in some aspects,as a result of which, could you just clarify,
what is the net effect of that?
Just repeat, please.
What is the net effect of that that we should note?
David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 2:12:51
So in terms of the net position that we reported in the initialQ2 report, that was an adverse variation of 266 ,000 on the
revenue budget, and we were at the time forecasting around a
two million pound underspend on capital.
With the second part of this report on the revenue side,
when we include planning services,
that moves that variation by about 30 ,000.
So it reduces the overall surplus from 250 ,000 to about 220 ,000.
The capital position with respect to the DFG position,
that's been a timing difference.
What I really meant is the net, the root detail or root of the net.
No, so the net position on revenue is as reported in the second half of the report,
in terms of capital that will be reported through to cabinet and council
and this committee at the back end of January and early February as part of
the budget setting process so there'll be some moving parts but my view would be
the overall position on capital the net to money on this bed hasn't changed
materially from what's in this report I was just giving some context to the fact
that this report was prepared in November and that there have been some
actions that have been taking place that have updated that.
Please.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:14:10
Councillor David Fowles - 2:14:12
Could I now go back to the question I asked at the end of the report on Publica, whichDavid was, sorry, Rob was very kindly going to answer, which is on page 24, the figure
the figure about
Lost it now
82 ,000 pounds net savings on public a contract son
Halfway down and then the additional recruitment cost of a hundred thousand
Just I know this is probably not going to alter the recommendations
But this is an opportunity to us with a bit of clarification because I thought we were it's great to see the saving
I just wonder is that phasing?
If I may, Chair, just in terms of the publicer underspend as reported, so there's an underspend
David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 2:15:04
that was reported in Q1 with an additional 82 ,000 reported up to the end of Quarter 2.So around about 140 ,000 of underspend on the overall publicer contract that is CDC's share.
That figure is unlikely to change given the impact of phase one will have transferred
a number of those services that may have contributed to that under spend.
The 100 ,000 that's the second to last paragraph is a separate item.
So in order to help resolve some of the issues in planning services with our reliance on
expenditure agency staff. The council has been active in the recruitment of
additional staff for planning and the additional director. That's estimated to
be for the purpose of phase one around a hundred thousand pounds that we were
spent on that recruitment. Ordinarily that the cost of recruitment for
services is met from vacancy management savings so when someone leaves there's a
the seriousness of the position on planning services and the
need to ensure that we have a robust planning service and that
we fill the posts that were established as part of the
phase one transfer as quickly as possible.
The predominantly black...
Councillor David Fowles - 2:16:37
100 ,000.So the 100 ,000, I can give you a detailed breakdown of that
David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 2:16:43
because I've got it line by line in terms of what we spent with variousagencies that were helping us with those recruitment posts. So there were from
from the top of my head the director of communities three senior planning posts
and there's a second trans planning post, it adds up to about nine posts in total.
But I can give you the detailed breakdown of how we've got to that figure.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:17:07
Thank you. Councillor Cunningham, sorry I over -healed front.We're all Davids, it's easily done.
Councillor David Cunningham - 2:17:13
On page 24 there's a whole raft of different things that went either good or bad.We spent an extra £49 ,000 on communications associated with the rezoning.
There's a £75 ,000 street services review miss.
There's 31 ,000 pounds that doesn't seem to net adverse reaction.
That doesn't really say what the adverse reaction was.
And could you just, the additional 100 ,000, can you tell us what the overall budget is
that that 100 ,000 goes into, please?
I've got other questions but they're for further down.
So in terms of some of the answers to those questions,
David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 2:18:02
the $49 ,000 of additional expenditure on communicationsand customer service was reported in Q1.
That was because it wasn't budgeted for.
So in the planning for the rezoning rollout,
that wasn't identified as a cost pressure at the time
the budget was set back in February of 2024.
So it was reported here as an overspend.
There was no set aside for that.
In terms of the additional communications service,
so there's a net of vacancy management savings
of around about 70 ,000.
So as part of the phase one transfer of services,
what came across to the council was two posts
as part of that transfer with an additional number of posts
established.
Those posts are vacant.
That contributes to 70 ,000.
but in order to provide the council with a robust
communication service, we are and have used an agency
called Contour to provide that support on an ongoing
basis as part of the repatriation of those
services to make sure that we've got adequate
provision of head of comm service support.
I've forecast that head of service support to the end
of the financial year.
That gives you that 31 ,000 adverse variations.
There's been some other pieces of work that Contour have supported the Council with in
terms of reviewing the job descriptions and advising the Council on how that team should
be composed and how to split those roles.
That was a commission that was undertaken earlier as part of the phase one process.
Sorry, so 31 ,000 was the net.
What did we actually, I've got a question about Contour later, but what we actually
Councillor David Cunningham - 2:19:51
spent on them because I haven't seen any budgeting for them previous questions at once I haveCouncillor Gina Blomefield - 2:20:04
It is for the second part of the report but on the planetSo simple
David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 2:20:10
Answer will be we have probably spent about a hundred thousand poundson
support for the communications service, because if we've got 70 ,000 of vacancies in the staffing
and we've got a net overspend of 30, we've probably spent about 100 ,000, that would be
on a number of different aspects to that, and that will have assessed the ongoing support
from the head of comms on an almost full -time basis from the end of October through to the
end of March.
That will need to be reviewed given I don't think we've engaged the head of comm support for quite that
Length of time in terms of it's a five day a week post
It's being occupied probably more for three days a week
So I would expect in the next update to the committee for that number to come down
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:21:04
Thank You councillor Jenkinson how many questions Thank You chair only oneCouncillor Angus Jenkinson - 2:21:08
I'd like to take a strategic view of this and in asking it I want to put it in the contextthat I'm sure it's a question that all Councillors would want to ask and indeed residents across
our district. As we've just been hearing we're expecting to see a transformation in the local
government set up and which will lead to a change in the status of CDC and effectively
we're anticipating it disappearing.
In that process, the finances of CDC would become merged in a larger unit.
That larger unit, according to government estimates, would be financed under a different
set of arrangements and they would expect to be supporting it in a way that they have
not been supporting the small units.
and we have discussed the way that we have suffered over previous years as a result of that.
Now in that context, this is not a long term that you are thinking about, meaning 10 years or 20 years,
but even a medium term forecast, which you are considering, takes us over a number of years,
and you're planning it over a number of years.
Now we have a consideration of responsibility,
responsibility. And I know, David, that you are very much concerned with that responsibility,
both generally because of the kind of person you are and because there are legal responsibilities
that belong to your role. And we also have responsibility for how we husband and steward
that particular money and make use of it into the future. So my question in that context
is this. When we come to think about what constitutes the responsible use of our resources,
of our financial resources in the medium term in this context, how do we go about the process
of considering when we should be deploying the money that we have in order to meet the
starved financial needs in our present situation today versus preparing, reserving this money
to be able to pass across to some other unitary authority in the future. What is our, what
should be the cabinet recommendation for how it should approach that and what scope for
freedom do you have legally within your responsibility to be able to exercise those kinds of questions?
Is that clear?
David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 2:23:56
In terms of, I suppose, the legal requirement the council has got, it's got a legal requirementto set a balanced budget for the forthcoming financial year and maintain that balance.
I have a responsibility under section 25 of one of the Acts, and I can't remember which
one it is, I think it's the Local Government Act, some time ago, to provide all members
with the section 25 statement on the adequacy of the reserves and the robustness of the
estimates that feed into the annual budget, but it also gives a view on the medium -term
financial strategies resilience.
Clearly with local government reorganisation going to happen at some point between now
and let's say 2028, this council's finances may be
subsumed into a new unitary, may be subsumed
into a different organization.
I would still advocate a level of financial
stewardship and responsibility to ensure
that those resources are directed against the
council's priorities and that that same type of
approach where we are looking to balance the
medium -term financial strategy over the longer -term period remains the case.
But we've also got to think carefully about the process by which the district councils
and the county council become a unitary, if that's the direction we go.
I would be expecting my counterparts at similar district or borough councils and the county
to be on to those conversations over the coming weeks and months so they can understand the
financial pressures that are on district councils.
Because one way or the other, a body, a unitary body, will take across the services that we
provide to our residents and the resources that we have got that we are providing them
with, and they will then need to work through that along with all the services they provide
as an upper tier authority, how all that fits together.
But I would still be advocating and providing advice to Cabinet and to all members of maintaining
a degree of financial stewardship of those public funds and advocating those resources
as we have done over the last few years in line with the Council's priorities.
Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 2:26:26
But if Cabinet was to take the view that there will be a new financial regime in the futureand it would be necessary for the country to provide for the appropriate resources for
that.
Would it also be reasonable to say that in so far as we have not been able to do some
of the things, I'm thinking of 500 compliance, 500 undealt with compliance issues because
we haven't got sufficient resources to be able to deal with it, things like that, in
in causing real local problems. In that kind of scenario, could it also be that the Cabinet
might consider emphasising the priority of taking care of our local districts so that
when we become part of a unitary authority, we're in better shape and that we pass across
a district that's operating in better shape without such residue of problems, with the
fact that there will be so much lost information in the process of that transformation, it
will be devastating.
David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 2:27:33
I think it's incumbent upon myself, as your Section 151 officer, to ensure that wherethe Council has got legal and statutory responsibility to provide services in a particular way, it
does so.
I would also be looking at the way in which the Council is looking to ensure that the
services it provides can be passed through to a new organisation in a way that reflects
the resources that are available.
So in other words, I wouldn't necessarily be advising members to say if there's 500
items that are in a backlog that we should spend all the resources the Council's got
to correct those problems that might then leave the subsequent authority that takes
our place in a more difficult position.
It's going to be a very, very interesting period of time where we have those negotiations
with our colleagues across the county or whatever body it is to ensure that those services are
adequately funded.
They reflect the needs of our communities, but there is going to be a considerable bigger
picture that that new unitary will need to understand, local government finance has always
been redistributive in its format. The changes that are being postponed for a number of years
that are due to come in in 26, 27, will move some of those resources around in advance
of the new unitary or whatever it is that takes its place. And we will have to think
carefully if we have reduced resources as a result, how we allocate those.
Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 2:29:15
Thank you and just to flag up that I will have a recommendation to give at the end of this conversation.Right.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:29:23
Okay. Thank you. Was there any more questions from the...Oh, Councillor Waring.
Councillor Jon Wareing - 2:29:31
Sorry, I just lost my... On the page 52 which still is... Yeah.which talks about the public air review phase two and it says phase two of the
review poses the single biggest risk to a balanced budget so given that we've
heard there's going to be a relook at phase two what are the implications?
David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 2:29:58
So in the MTFS update report that this committee and cabinet considered inNovember, that made clear that there was no provision within
the draft budget and MTFS for next year for whatever phase
two was going to cost.
So to me, phase two needs to consider the cost of those
services going forward.
So I've made that point in paragraph 9 .9,
the design and principle of consideration of cost must
to ensure that we look at the benefit versus the cost of bringing those services back.
That's part of the conversation that we need to have as officers in the forums that the
Chief Executive outlined to ensure that decisions are being arrived at or put in front of Cabinet
and Council, that an adequate level of additional resources going in to bring those services
back where there is a strong business case to make.
And I think what the chief executive was saying was that
three to four priority areas have been identified, and
that's what we're progressing with.
But to understand that with limited resources available to
the council, that given there will be an increase in cost
because other things being equal, if you take a person
out of public that's on a 5 % employer's contribution
pension scheme and move them into a council where it's
20 .7%, that is going to increase your cost.
And with phase two, the complexity of understanding
what is it the council needs to deliver that service,
is that more than what it's been paying for
through a shared service arrangement in public.
So it's understanding what is the need to have
that service in terms of if it's a sovereign service
that's not shared with any other authority.
What does that look like, what does that cost,
What are the benefits you're going to get from that?
And does that justify the additional cost?
And that's going to be a really difficult set of considerations to go through at pace.
Before we go any further, I just want to mention that it is now 20 to 7.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:32:10
So we have 20 minutes and we have another service report as well.So I think this is one of the most important parts of our meeting today.
I'm very happy for people to discuss it.
I know that Councillor Jenkinson is working on doing a recommendation, but did anybody else...
Because this isn't the thing, we've got the second part of the report, we haven't actually finished this item yet.
Are you satisfied with the first part and particularly in the recommendations which the cabinet has agreed to?
There's nobody wanting to make any comments on this. So then I will say...
Sorry, Madam Chair, just one thing. There's mention of paragraphs 5
Councillor David Cunningham - 2:32:52
.11 and 5 .12, or 5 .12and 5 .13, and I don't have them. Is that just because I've got an old report? It finishes
at 5 .1.
David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 2:33:20
I shall investigate.It may be that the referencing of the paragraphs is incorrect, but the number of paragraphs
is correct.
I shall come back to you.
Well, thank you. We will have that checked out.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:33:35
Do you, David, now wish to do your second part of this report, which is much more to do with the planning side?David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 2:33:48
Yes, thank you, Chair. I shall be extra brief on this part of the report.Essentially, what we were able to do in the early part of December is with the recruitment
underway and offers having been made, we had some more certainty as to our reliance on
agency staff, how long they would be engaged for when those permanent staff would be started,
so we were able to give you more certainty.
In a sense, what this report does is provide that update with a focus on planning services.
a couple of points I would make in paragraph 3 .9.
We are not providing interim agency cover for an assistant
director of planning.
It's not a new role.
It is planning.
Paragraph 3 .10 refers to paragraphs X to X.
That's paragraph 3 .7 to 3 .9.
But the long and the short of this report is that where
There is around about £120 ,000 of additional income that's come through planning fees that
is offsetting to an extent the £150 ,000 of additional expenditure this financial year
that we are incurring over and above the salary budgets that have come across as part of phase
one.
The point that I've made in paragraph 3 .20 is that the additional income does not in
itself justify the additional expenditure, but we need to understand the relationship
between the planning income that comes through for each planning application and the spend.
What I think is a driver for service transformation as part of what the planning service will
to do, now that it's come across to the Council, is to increase the proportion the service
is funded for by those planning fees. So to have that flex where additional planning fees
are coming in and that the overall contribution that's making to the overall cost of the service
is going up, rather than looking at the total spend and the total income, you're looking
at the total proportion of the planning services covered from the planning fees that come through.
And that's in summary, I think, where this will need
to be in the following financial year, because I
think we've had the transfer of the service with a number
of vacancies.
We've had heavy reliance on agency staff.
We've now got permanent staff that are due to start
February and March.
I believe there was an email that came out shortly
before Christmas that updated all members on those
appointments.
That puts the service into a better place from the first
of April, and then we'll need to keep that under very close scrutiny to ensure that there
isn't any adverse variation, because it won't take much in terms of churn of staff for you
then to be back in the position where you are heavily reliant on agency staff.
But overall, it's a net 30 ,000 deterioration in the previous report, but I think what you've
got within this report is a good and thorough explanation of why that's the position and
to be done about it.
Thank you, well Councillor Cunningham already flagged earlier that
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:37:02
he'd like to talk on this and Councillor Spivey.Councillor David Cunningham - 2:37:06
I think is that part of the950 ,000 overspend
number for 31 ,000 because it doesn't I couldn't see anything other the other detail that so I'm
920 ,000 offside
as at 30th of September
Do we know where that $950 ,000 went?
The quick answer to that is the two aren't necessarily connected.
David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 2:38:05
So what paragraph 4 .4 on page 30 is setting out is the overall actuals to date at the30th of September of what the profile budget would be.
Within that will be all sorts of variations.
The planning service at the time that was being reported was part of the public
overall position which was
Reporting around about 140 ,000 net underspend for our share of their contract sum. So the
30 ,000 is only covering the position from the point that service transferred to the council
So I've only looked at the cost of provision of planning services from the 1st of November
through to the 31st of March.
Any variation, whether it's positive or negative, is within the overall contract sum variation.
But the paragraph you refer to on page 30 is purely looking at the overall, what was
the actual amount spent net of everything versus what was the profile budget.
It's a way to give you a sense of if I was projecting there was no variation at
the end of the financial year but you had a profile variation that was three
million pounds out that should highlight this something a little bit off in that
forecast.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:39:28
Councillor Spivey, I see that Mr Ryan is now close to seven but please go ahead.Councillor Lisa Spivey - 2:39:33
I'll be as quick as I can. I note that many of the vacancies have beenI think that is incredibly important.
It is not only statutory services also, something which is very important here in the Cotswold
District to ensure that we have a good functioning planning service.
As we all know, good functioning services rely on excellent staff in order to deliver
those things.
I am pleased to see that we are filling vacancies.
I do think that is important.
I think what Councillor Jenkins is perhaps writing a recommendation on and links into
this is around enforcement, which I do think is important. I note that we are still missing
some of those people. Based on the previous comment debate around that, obviously it is
at the Council's discretion to choose how it spends its money, bearing in mind that
we must have a balanced budget. Whilst we could put all of our eggs into the enforcement
basket, that would be at the risk of not doing other things or delivering other services.
I for one would not be wanting us to do that. But I do think that it is important, so therefore
I think that we should be considering some kind of recommendation to Cabinet to ensure
that we do carry on with this process. I know that getting the staff in and keeping them
here has been one of the issues previously and I hope that them being part now of Cotswold
District Council as opposed to being part of Publica will help that. Something that
is more of a comment rather than anything else. I wonder if my colleagues would like
to comment similarly.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:41:14
Thank you for that. My one thing down here with stars around it is enforcement. It isIt's great having a planning, they do their job very well, but we all know that sometimes people don't do things as they should,
and it's very important that they actually do realise we have a strong enforcement team, which has been struggling a bit of late.
So I agree with that, totally opposite.
Councillor Selwyn.
Councillor Gary Selwyn - 2:41:42
Thank you, Chair. On a completely, it's pages 110 it starts, and you know how much I like brief management summaries.We see this report a lot. Our Cotswolds, our Plan 24 to 28 contain in the middle of loads of figures.
It's a very interesting 20 page essay with a lot of historical data in it.
And my recommendation of Cabinet would be A. Does it actually need to be in this report?
And B. Does it need to be in this report in this form?
I would very happily have a bullet management summary of actions and successes rather, because I always read this, rather than a 20 page essay.
Thank you.
Did you want to answer on either of those?
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:42:25
On enforcement, I'm sorry, I rather jumped in there and also on the rather lengthy paperwork sometimes.In terms of the enforcement piece, I think it's important to recognise
David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 2:42:36
that the planning service has been under pressure of late,with some backlog in planning applications being processed.
And it was important to ensure that we fill those vacancies in
a particular way with recruiting to the senior roles first,
but enforcement is part of the next wave of recruitment.
I will pick that up with the Chief Executive to ensure that
the planning service is adequately resourced within
its overall financial envelope.
In terms of the observation on page 120, I must note that my report ends on page 89.
And I think that will be addressed in the next agenda item.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:43:30
I wasn't actually, so um, Councillor Jenkinson, oh sorry, but just ask you whether he's comingon with doing a recommendation at this point?
Councillor David Cunningham - 2:43:41
You didn't answer my question, section 151, about the total budget for recruitment, butI'm happy to get an answer back on an email.
David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 2:43:49
I can say there is no budget set aside for recruitment, and ordinarily recruitment ismanaged within the vacancy management.
So if I had a member of the finance team leave,
I might have a gap, say, of six weeks between them leaving
and someone starting, and that would pay for the recruitment.
But given the importance and the seniority of the post
that had been recruited as part of phase one,
transfer the discussion that I had with the chief executive,
given our heavy reliance on quite costly agency staff,
that delaying recruitment until we'd built up
significant resource to do so was counterproductive so there has been
additional spend on recruitment that isn't budgeted for but you'll see this
is being covered within the overall variation.
Zero.
How much has been budgeted?
And how much has been spent?
A hundred thousand.
Thank you very straightforward answers there.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:44:45
Councillor Jenssen, have you got this recommendation?Thank you very much, Chair.
Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 2:44:49
Basically, it could be expressed in this simple way, in the present situation, cabinet reviewits policy under medium -term financial management.
There's an expanded version of that, which just gives some context.
given years of financial reductions impacting services that cabinet reviews the most responsible use of its resources in the medium -term finances given the anticipated transition to a unitary authority.
Thank you.
Councillor Lisa Spivey - 2:45:39
With all due respect to my esteemed colleague, I would say as a former member of cabinetthat that is what cabinet does do on a very regular basis and I would say I am sure that
Mr Stanley would agree that certainly the lead cabinet member for finance will be doing
that on a weekly basis and that therefore I do not think that we need to make that recommendation.
two -cabinet personally.
Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 2:46:04
Yeah, soCouncillor Angus Jenkinson - 2:46:06
I'm not talking about all the littledetailed things which are made. I'm talking about the big picture of how we approach it and
we have been
treated to a same thing with a series of specific points that were made to cabinet. We're being asked to endorse it.
They've already been agreed, I understand, so it's post hoc for us to look at it now.
but they are way more nitty -gritty and detailed than the one I'm proposing.
So I would suggest that we are actually sending a signal here
that when we look at the big picture and we have to weigh up,
where is our responsibility to the district and to the situation
that you so eloquently pointed out just a few minutes ago,
versus some future nebulous unitary authority that will be much better financed than we are today.
Perhaps we have to look after today rather than look after tomorrow.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:47:10
I have a five year picture of three years.Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 2:47:11
I'm gonna sort of, this isCouncillor Gina Blomefield - 2:47:14
anybody can disagree or anything and I can get support from officers on this.When we make recommendations to the cabinet, it is generally a more specific thing,
so actually it's really pointing out a clear sort of thing which meant not being considered.
I would tend to agree with Councillor Spivey that actually the remit of the cabinet is
to be responsible and look after the bigger picture, and I'm not sure that there is a
Am I looking around?
I'm getting a bit of a nod here and there.
That we could make a recommendation which would
change the way that they look.
We're trying to give them ideas which they might not
have considered before.
Something new or fresh or a new way of looking at it.
Our role is not actually to direct them to whatever it is.
it is just to put recommendations forward.
And I'm not sure that this falls within quite that remit.
Can I just come briefly?
So thank you, Chair.
Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 2:48:22
I take your point on that.And if I weren't in this context of ONS,
I might remind us that I am a Liberal Democrat
and have great esteem for the cabinet that currently
is doing the work, naturally.
The thing is that this, for me, is
There is nothing in this report that addresses the specific issue.
And therefore, insofar as we are not saying, how do we consider how we need to manage our
finances in the next few years, it seems to me appropriate that we in ONS bring that question.
And it could be put that we ask Cabinet to report back to us on how they see this picture
being managed into the future as a policy.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:49:08
My feeling is that we have both the opportunities at full Council to discuss this and to takeit further and put those questions.
I don't feel that overview and scrutiny's role is not to actually direct or form policies.
It is to review, look at things and make suggestions and recommendations.
I
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:49:51
Can't the files I said I've got amore of a procedural thing because I remember I don't remember this specific item, but I do remember a
Councillor David Fowles - 2:49:59
a report that came out, a recommendation that came out of Oviur Scrutinyand I think it was a meeting that you were at
where you actually turned round and said yes it was a recommendation that came out from
Oviur Scrutiny but I did not agree with that recommendation
and I can't remember, I think it was in planning
so the question I was going to ask is when
colleagues around the table are making recommendations to Cabinet
as Councillor Selwyn has. I quite like reading an essay. He's chosen to put a
recommendation that is otherwise. I don't know how that leaves this committee and
goes forward. Do we take a vote on someone's recommendation? Is that what
we'll ultimately do? Just for the sake of clarity. So wouldn't that be better? So
Councillor Jain, yes, has already made a recommendation when we come to
vote on it. Wouldn't that be the better way of dealing with it? Otherwise we'll
be here in a sort of bit of a trio between Councillor Spivey and you and Councillor Angus.
So let's just vote on it, move on.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:51:07
Actually David Stanley was going to come up with something.David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 2:51:17
Just in terms of, I suppose, the issue around local government reorganisation only cameout on December 16th, which is after the main part of this report was considered, and sometime
after the November report that went to Cabinet and was considered by this committee in terms
of the draft budget and MTFS.
What that report did was in section 4 of that report, it set out the budget strategy and
assumptions, and that set out, I suppose, the broad
approach that cabinet were recommending would be
followed in drawing up the budget for 25 -26.
Clearly, local government reorganization is going to
have an impact on that.
I think it is beyond the remit of the report that
you've currently got in front of you for that
question to be recommended to cabinet.
This is a report that is looking at the Q2
financial performance.
So it's something that will be coming back to this
committee at the end of January, beginning of
in February with the wider budget in MTFS.
It is a council function to agree with the budget.
That is where I think that should be discussed and
debated, but I think what you've got here is the
financial performance report, which doesn't cover
and is reflective of the time it was drafted, those
more existential questions as to how does the council
deal with its financial position between now and
whenever this council ceases to exist.
I think that is one that would be a good debating
point in February.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:52:53
So I'm asking all you members, are you in agreement with that,that it should actually be something
which we should be thinking of for full council, the budget
council, and that it'll be more useful.
It is early days yet for all this.
It's a huge amount of things and we don't even know quite when it's going to happen
and how it's going to happen.
So I think now it's just at seven o 'clock.
We're going to get it on a future meeting.
Yes.
Perfect.
No, actually I disagree with that.
Councillor Lisa Spivey - 2:53:26
I think it's far too early.We haven't even had a report on it, we haven't had a paper on it.
There are seven councils, some will be going off having fire sales, selling things, some
will be renewing contracts on the eve of vesting, it's going to be a total nightmare.
I do not think we are anywhere near ready to have.
Have you got any idea what's going to happen, David?
Have you got a crystal ball?
I think we'll be asking our officers to come up with something based on zero information.
David could write you about 20 pages, he could write you 500 pages and it wouldn't even cover
the possibilities.
I think it's far too early to be doing any of this.
We don't know whether we're having one unitary authority or two unitary authorities.
We've got no idea.
I think it would be a complete waste of David's time, of officer time and of our time to be
discussing this in a scant four weeks.
It's ridiculous.
Yes.
I'll pass the van.
Oh dear.
Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 2:54:25
Councillor Michael Vann - 2:54:26
Oh dear.I've been here for three hours.
Many district councils will have had meetings to discuss Quarter 2.
Then the very last moment that the government, the national government possibly could, it
it gave it its devolution edict before Christmas quite deliberately after all
district councils have been having this roughly similar meetings it would be so
irresponsible of us to do anything at all other than to work out what the team in
has got for us and I'm under no circumstances would vote for any
resolution at the end of this meeting.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:55:31
Right, Casa Fales we do want to keep it short and snappy.Councillor David Fowles - 2:55:37
I would tend to agree because you know local government gets criticized forsometimes you know things go far slowly, far more slowly and one of the
frustrations when you come in from the private sector in the past is that I just think that
we have to deal with the here and now. I was saying to Rob
outside the meeting when we had the break, you know, here
we are second -guessing whether they're going to be elections in May and we're cracking on on the basis that
we don't know, so therefore we've got to crack on.
We could second guess and I do think if we're going to take a vote,
it's not that I can really criticize what you're trying to do. It's just I think that I do agree with Councillor Spivey.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:56:17
And Councillor van right well, I agree with Councillor spy via pretty much everything she said and I agree with Councillor vanCouncillor Angus Jenkinson - 2:56:23
I'm simply I'm not saying that we're going to make a specific decisionI'm saying that we should take note of that we're asking st.
Cabinet in the light of this we should have an ongoing
Monitoring process of evaluating how we address the responsible use of our resources. That's all
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:56:42
I think we do get it through our reports.I think that we are moving on.
I think the point has been made and I am sure it has been heard.
Let's move on.
We have got to move.
We have got the service performance report which some people already touched on a little
early.
Now, who is going to do this?
12 Service Performance Report 2024-25 Quarter Two
Rob Weaver, are you going to come and present?
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:57:25
Andrew, have I got to do somethingbecause the meeting's gone over three hours?
You haven't quite gone over three hours.
You've got two and a half minutes.
Andrew Brown, Officer - 2:57:32
So, you're now on to the service performance,but you can complete that item as normal.
You're not rushed, and then the rest of the business falls.
Thank you.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:57:43
What I would like to do is just so that we would actuallycirculate the things on the work plan, which does keep changing.
And I will do that after me.
So we don't need to discuss it, but you
will be involved with that.
And I don't think that, Dylis, have you?
I don't know very much about the task, because I don't care.
So I've just done it from the beginning.
Would you be able to, or to Andrew?
and likewise...
Councillor Gary Selwyn - 2:58:10
Could I could I make a suggestion because we are in a situation where we always areWhere we run out of time and I'm very keen in particular
Council Jenkins's summary of the lack of scrutiny meetings that last time we met he was very interesting and informative
Could we not bring that back end to the front end next meeting?
So at least we have the benefit of hearing from any scrutiny and HOSC that has gone on or its equivalent names
because we never get to hear the feedback.
So I would request next time we reverse the agenda
and stick those two items at the front.
And just on that, I do find it very useful
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:58:49
when you both actually write some written report,which we can see beforehand,
because it gives, like we read all these reports,
it is very helpful to see it in advance of the meeting.
So thank you. Now, Rob, please.
CEO Rob Weaver - 2:59:03
Thank you, Chair. So again, as is normal practice, I'll quickly rattle through some of the highlightsand some of the lowlights. You've got the papers in front of you and then open it up
to any questions either for me or my able colleagues, Gemma and Alison, who are the
authors of this report and help me in terms of pulling it together.
So in terms of highlights, Council has now entered into a contract with Connected Curb,
as we heard earlier from Mike McEwen and Olivia, for the delivery of EVCPs in four of the council
car parks. Cotswold Home Solar Scheme continues to be actively promoted resulting at the point
this report was written in 17 homes already installing solar panels, 20 additional deposits
placed and anticipated savings of nearly 450 ,000 for residents across the district.
The spring round for Crowdfund Cotswold was successful with five out of the six supported
projects exceeding their funding targets and in July Cabinet agreed to recontract with
space hive to continue the crowd fund Cotswold programme which has enabled an autumn round
that closed on 16 October. The Unsung Heroes awards scheme was launched in July with the
inaugural awards presented to the winners at full council in September. It continues
to go from strength to strength. Some highlights on service performance better than target.
Customer satisfaction via telephone and face to face remains very high with the council.
percentage of planning applications determined within agreed time scales remains above target
for all application types, 95 % for majors, 87 % for minors and 85 % for other applications
that don't fall clearly within those other categories.
Percentage of freedom of information requests answered within 20 days was above target for
the first time in three years, with 95 % of requests answered in time.
The percentage of land charges returned within 10 days
remains above target for the fifth consecutive
quarter at 96 percent.
And the number of gym memberships and visits to
the leisure centers are above target, with some
memberships already exceeding the end of year
target by 6 percent.
Some of those areas where performance is not hitting
target, non -domestic rates are underperforming
against the target, 4 percent down, and are
significantly lower compared to the previous year.
However, the quarter T figures from last year was an anomaly, as it included a substantial
payment for prior year's debts, which was created in the 23 -24 collections process.
So we're hoping that blip has now played out.
Processing times for council tax support and housing benefit remains above target, but
whilst they have improved, they are now approximately four days lower than the same period last
year, so we'll continue to monitor that in terms of why that might be.
Missed bins per 100 ,000 collections, disruption associated with the change to the bin rounds,
which you'll be well aware, has been resolved in the main.
There are still a few pockets of ongoing issues which we are aware of, but clearly due to
the high levels of sickness within Yubico for July and August, within that particular
window there were higher than expected levels of misbins and some of that is still playing
out in this report.
However, the misses are now largely back on track with intolerance.
So that was my summary.
Again in the report you'll have a lot of benchmarking data so I would draw your attention to the
tables on many of the pages within the plan that sets out how CDC performs not only against
some of the public authorities but against nearest neighbours including Stratford -on -Avon,
Derbyshire, Dales, Bitchfield and Malvern Hills as some of those areas that are useful
comparators in that area.
I'm happy at that point, Chair, to stop and take any questions that members may have for
me or my colleagues.
Yes, Councillor Cunningham and Councillor van Voorhees.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 3:02:53
It's a question and a statement really.Councillor David Cunningham - 3:02:57
Number of affordable homes delivered, cumulative, 35 delivered against a target of 50.How long has CDC been building homes?
I don't think we do build homes, do we?
Can we be a little bit clearer on that?
I mean, we're helping out with getting them through and they're all part of the general
push but CDC doesn't deliver homes, it doesn't build anything, sadly.
But I think just to be clear on it, it would also be a metric that you then don't fail,
so that would be even better.
Page 96.
Councillor David Cunningham - 3:03:28
Yeah, the only thing I would come back on there is from a quick look, it doesn't sayCEO Rob Weaver - 3:03:36
number of affordable homes built.We do, delivered, well we do help deliver affordable housing.
We've got the Down Amity scheme, we've got schemes in other parts of districts where
we work very actively with GRCC and the likes of Bromford, Cotsway, Rooftop to provide affordable
housing.
So I would challenge the fact that we are delivering affordable houses.
It doesn't say we're building them, it says we're delivering them.
And I think through putting in that investment of staff and land and resource and capacity,
we are playing a part in delivering against that ambition to deliver affordable homes.
Councillor David Cunningham - 3:04:11
I think that's a bit of a stretch, Mr Weaver.We provide those people in here to do lots of things, not just to deliver these homes.
We don't build them, we don't maintain them, we don't keep them, we don't collect the rent,
we don't do any of those things.
We simply help out with getting the paperwork through.
So I think it's a bit of a push to claim that we're delivering anything.
That's like saying, because the father was involved in the conception of the baby, you
helped deliver it.
Well I did.
Did you want to say anything further on that or should I go to
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 3:04:48
Councillor Vann please.Councillor Michael Vann - 3:04:53
Page 146 number of complaints upheld no target. Now if I'd made a complaint in CDC which can betotally discounted, excellent performance.
And I was wanting to find out who else complained.
The fact that there's no target, it's a bit provocative.
It's just everything else has targets.
Higher is good, lower is bad, and the rest.
But complaints, at the very least,
just remove the words no target.
What did you do?
Yeah, thank you for the question.
Happy to take that one away.
CEO Rob Weaver - 3:05:40
We can look at whether or not, well,I think what will be useful is we could do some benchmarking
in some of those key areas where we get complaints
and see how we perform against others.
Yeah, if we can find them.
Before we go to, actually, I was going to,
I've also got complaints written down here, as I think.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 3:05:57
It's not included in that but I'm aware that it's not just, it's several town and parish councils where there are complaints about them.Are they covered under any of this sort of procedure because it is a concern and it is something that we actually have a role to look at.
Yes, Angela, thank you.
Hopefully if you can hear me. So Town and Parish complaints, I think
Andrew Brown, Officer - 3:06:31
just to clarify you mean complaints against the conduct of a Town and Parish Councillor don't you?That they may or may not have breached a Code of Conduct. So that comes under the Re -emit of Audit and Governance Committee.
So it is reported to the Board and Governance Committee annually as part of the Standards Report.
So if that's of help to members that I think last went in July I can circulate that link so members can have a look.
But as you have probably heard me say before and heard me talk at council, we have seen
a massive increase in the number of complaints that have been coming in across the district
sadly about town and parish conduct.
Obviously not always have they found to have breached the code.
Well thank you for that, it was that and it is good to know where to
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 3:07:11
find it and I wouldlike to have that.
It is an increasing issue, it is not just in this Cotswold district council, I know
that it goes wider than that but it is obviously a serious concern because it
Councillor Dilys Neill - 3:07:30
is part of our thing. Councillor Neill. Yes I'm looking at page 140 about long -termempty properties and what I wanted to say was that it keeps appearing on the
work plan and then not coming up. I think it was on the work plan for November and
then January. I read it was going to be in the January it was going to be kicked
off. That's now. No, no, I thought it was going to be at the, we had it on our work plan to look at it
at meetings and we did I think actually, it is actually I think it may be in March now, it's um
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 3:08:01
and it has been, I'm very clear so she could have actually answered this better than I thinkanybody else in this room at the moment.
But, you know, as I say, the work plan,
they jump around these things.
And it was not me who pushed it back, I can assure you.
I would be very happy to hear it.
Because we were originally going to look at it in November,
Councillor Dilys Neill - 3:08:26
but I guess it has to be discussed at Cabinet first,doesn't it?
But it seems to be something that's difficult,
and so it seems to keep on getting postponed.
Madam Chair, might I say that we put in a recommendation
Councillor David Cunningham - 3:08:37
That cabinet looks at this issue as a matter of urgencyGiven that it has been slipping and it is something which is on a lot of people's minds in the district
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 3:08:52
Very happy to take that forward if Andrew would like to startPutting that together. I've got a few others. I've got cancer Selwyn. Well actually a cancer and counselor files
You sure just write down
Councillor Gary Selwyn - 3:09:06
Just apologies for leaping ahead earlier then. So the point just to brieflyreiterate we could got the council pressure report priorities report July
to September 24 and page 109 the essay then we have performance report July 24
September 24 the graphs the reason for those that have been on this committee
for quite a while the reason that page 129 almost looks like it does it because
this is exactly the way the committee asked the data and information to be displayed and
I'm very happy that it is. I would go slightly further than I did earlier as opposed to saying
it's an essay and can we have a more of a management summary. I think the point I would
make is does the council pressure report from 109 to 129 actually need to be in front of
this committee at all because we don't set the priorities we are not cabinet we are revealing
things that have happened and evaluating and finding out what has happened and could it
have been different, quicker, slower, whatever, I don't know that we actually need to have
the council project report in front of this committee at all.
Councillor David Cunningham - 3:10:10
Madam Chair, I think from memory we asked to have the details supplied. This was inStephen's time, I think. We asked for it to be supplied so that we could cross reference
back to the, I understand what you're saying, but I think it's there for our benefit in
case we have any specific questions from memory.
But just to come back, we now have three sets of data that is repeated
Councillor Gary Selwyn - 3:10:32
throughout this second half of the section.We have the first half, which has gone through. We then have the Council priorities. We then have the performance report.
There are things mentioned three times across those three tables.
And we have not only a three hour meeting, but 177 pages to go through.
I'm always looking at things that could simplify the procedure and save us half an hour here and there.
That's my intent to it. I
Think it's very good point. I sometimes when I'm reading through this. I think I've read this before
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 3:11:03
So it does sort of you know, I'm obviously wasn't concentrating here it is againYes, whether there is a way of reviewing to not get the duplication in the papers
Yeah, thanks, and it's always up for this committee to review and
CEO Rob Weaver - 3:11:21
evaluate and if you want things presented in different waysWe're happy to do that, but I can see Gemma waving at me
So I think she may want to come in
I just wanted to say that the reason that it's in so many different formats is because I think councilor foul touched on earlier
Officer - 3:11:32
Everybody consumes data in a different waySo some people like to read it some people like to look at the numbers some people like to look at the visuals
So that's why it's like that, but we can absolutely modify it to to suit anybody. That's the that's what we're for
Let's just go away
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 3:11:51
I'm going to recommend that Councillor Selwyn has a meeting with you and discusses it.Would that not be...
We have a five page document. It would be magnificent.
Well I thought you would just...
I'm more than happy...
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 3:12:09
...is what I was hoping and actually it would be helpful.I think it would be a really good... Thank you. Thank you.
Was there anything else?
Councillor Fowls, Councillor Dickson, Councillor Cunningham.
It's interesting to be a guest on a committee that has Councillor
Councillor David Fowles - 3:12:29
Sellers at one end and you at the other.And you in the middle, Chairman.
I just think we ought to minute and acknowledge the fantastic performance on the graphs, because
I hide graphs, of the major planning applications and minor planning applications against the
target, given the difficulties that planning has had with interims. I think that's great,
and I personally would like to see that minuted and passed back to the officers.
The question I was going to ask was in relation to the matter to do with building control,
where on page 149, where basically it says that there is no data, because attempting
to get feedback from people who use building control, we're basically, we continue, it
says here, however, the satisfaction survey data continues to face challenges due to low
There was a response rate with no surveys returned in Q2.
So could we ask, or could we ask that we look at how we can
perhaps encourage a better level of response from our customers
in relation to that?
Thank you.
But the main thing was to acknowledge the huge achievement
on both major and minor applications.
Just, thank you, good questions.
Just quickly to come back, we'll definitely pick that up with the Building Control Manager,
CEO Rob Weaver - 3:14:00
particularly on the basis that most people that are recipients of local authority buildingcontrol services are very happy with the service they receive.
So if we are missing an opportunity to be able to report that back because we're not
doing the surveys in the right way or the process is finished and people have moved
on to the next project and they're not sending those questionnaires or surveys back, then
we're probably missing an opportunity to promote one of the services.
It's more in the context that it's not a statute of use.
Councillor David Fowles - 3:14:27
It's a service that people can buy into or can go outside to the private sector, isn't it?And so it would be nice to know whether we're performing well.
And if silence signifies consent and satisfaction or not, that's what I was trying to get at.
Because when you're looking at areas where you want to try and increase our income, potentially this is one of those areas.
Right.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 3:14:53
Right. Councillor Cunningham, did you have another question?Madam Chair, mine's been a really simple one. Number of complaints upheld. Did you pick
those out by random? We've got Derbyshire Dales, Chichester and Linfield. I mean, there's
Councillor David Cunningham - 3:15:03
a bunch for us to get benchmarks against. Was there a reason for that?They're the CIPFIR nearest neighbours, so the Chartered Institute for
Officer - 3:15:14
Financial...Public. Public Financial Accounting.
So that's where they come from. They've got similar demographics so they might not be closest to us but they're very similar in the way that they are.
It used to be, sorry to interrupt, I know offlogs are not a thing anymore but they used to be offlogs similar authorities so it's you know broadly benchmarked against government used them and so we decided to use them.
Councillor David Cunningham - 3:15:41
That's fine it's just it's usually WestoX, Forest of Dean, blah blah blah blah blah and these random ones but that's the reason I take that. Thank you very much.Councillor Gina Blomefield - 3:15:49
We asked for other comparisons because everything was public and it was good to have councilswhich were not actually public because they were sharing a lot of the employees.
It was trying to get a broader comparison.
Further away, maybe.
Now I have got Councillor Jenkinson.
Thank you, chair.
I have two comments.
Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 3:16:17
The first one is important in the context of the second one.My first comment is it's clear that there's really a lot of good work that's been done.
When you look at the achievements that have been made in all kinds of areas,
many officers have done a fantastic job, many of the systems have done a fantastic job,
and I think we should appreciate that.
We've already heard comments to that effect.
I'd like to echo that and support that.
I think it's really important to recognize.
And that when we look at the successes and the problems,
the successes are very extensive,
and the failures are a bit on the edge of things
in a number of cases.
They're rather minor.
That said, we've had some discussion
about how you go about reporting.
When I go through these reports, I always
think there's no way that an organization that's normally managing things under a quality
management system would not report things like this. Because so often the data isn't
really meaningful on that basis. And now there isn't enough time to go into the detail of
that, but I brought this up again and again. We'd do it completely differently if we were
going to try and manage this using quality techniques.
I'd be very happy to.
Doing it in the right way eliminates a whole lot,
Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 3:17:48
because you can just say, you don'tneed to look at all of these, because it's just
producing what you'd expect, and the variation is not
significant.
These are the only ones you need to look at,
because these are the only ones that are actually significant.
And all the rest is just normal variation that takes place.
Well, thank you.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 3:18:10
Actually, I do want to also congratulate you.I mean, the reporting of the previous council,
it is much clearer, it's much better,
and I think we get a much better picture of what's going on.
And it's good to have these targets where there are targets.
and it does seem that we are doing pretty well.
It's nice to see that recorded.
But I agree that maybe looking at the ways it's presented
and trying to make it more digestible, is what I was going to say,
would be appreciated.
But was there anything else that anybody else wanted to add?
I think graphics is great.
Just to the point about the long -term empty property strategy,
Andrew Brown, Officer - 3:18:58
That did go through cabinet in October and was approved.There wasn't an ONS meeting that month,
which is why you didn't consider it,
but you can always ask for an update.
And when members see the programme of meeting reports
for next year, for 25 -26, you'll see that we've put an ONS
in for every cabinet meeting to avoid this happening.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 3:19:24
I think that this is sort of procedural things.if we get it better set up, then these sort
of trip -ups don't happen.
So, but thank you, and thank you for reminding us
that it was then.
Thank you.
Does anybody have anything else?
We get the work plan, we're going to circulate later.
Was a, Councillor, I felt you had another sort
of recommendation, or you've not now.
Good. Was there anything else, anybody else wish to add?
Rob.
Just very quickly, thank you very much,
and I'll certainly pass on the feedback.
CEO Rob Weaver - 3:19:56
What I'll do is I'll put a note of thanks from this committeeon the CDC portal and we'll do the same on public hookers.
It's not just Gemma and the team that do a lot of the work,
it's the people actually delivering
so they can collect the stats.
So more than happy to feed that back on your behalf.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Well, thank you everyone.
I'm sorry we stayed a bit late.
Oh, Councillor Fowles.
Councillor Gina Blomefield - 3:20:18
I just want to say, Gemma, as a guest, a substituteCouncillor David Fowles - 3:20:20
on this committee, but it's great to see that the scrutinisation of the Council's work isin such safe hands and I've really enjoyed serving today on your committee and I look
forward to other people not being able to attend so I can substitute in the future.
Thank you.
- Minutes , 04/11/2024 Overview and Scrutiny Committee, opens in new tab
- CDC O&S Committee Jan 2025, opens in new tab
- Financial Performance Report - Q2 2024-25 O&S FINAL 11.12..24, opens in new tab
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