Overview and Scrutiny Committee - Monday 7 September 2026, 4:00pm

Overview and Scrutiny Committee
Monday, 7th September 2026 at 4:00pm

Speaking:

Start of webcast

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Councillor Gina Blomefield

1 Apologies

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Julia Gibson, Officer
Councillor Gina Blomefield

2 Substitute Members

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Councillor Angus Jenkinson
Councillor Michael Vann
Councillor Tony Slater
Councillor Jon Wareing
Councillor Gina Blomefield

3 Declarations of Interest

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4 Minutes

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5 Matters Arising from Minutes of the Previous Meeting

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Actions from OS - 29 06 26 V2

Julia Gibson, Officer
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Jon Wareing
Councillor Jon Wareing
Councillor Gina Blomefield

6 Chair's Announcements

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Councillor Len Wilkins
Councillor Gina Blomefield

7 Public Questions

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8 Member Questions

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9 Report back on recommendations

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10 Council Performance report Q1 2026-2027

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Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Mike Evemy
Councillor Patrick Coleman
Councillor Gina Blomefield
David Stanley, Deputy CEO
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Jon Wareing
David Stanley, Deputy CEO
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Len Wilkins
David Stanley, Deputy CEO
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Tony Slater
Councillor Mike Evemy
Councillor Mike Evemy
David Stanley, Deputy CEO
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Jon Wareing
David Stanley, Deputy CEO
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Angus Jenkinson
David Stanley, Deputy CEO
Councillor Angus Jenkinson
David Stanley, Deputy CEO
Councillor Mike Evemy
Councillor Angus Jenkinson
Councillor Mike Evemy
Councillor Angus Jenkinson
David Stanley, Deputy CEO
Councillor Angus Jenkinson
Councillor Mike Evemy
David Stanley, Deputy CEO
Councillor Mike Evemy
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Jon Wareing
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Mike Evemy
Councillor Gina Blomefield
David Stanley, Deputy CEO
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Mike Evemy
Officer
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Officer
Councillor Gina Blomefield
David Stanley, Deputy CEO
Councillor Gina Blomefield
David Stanley, Deputy CEO
Officer
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Mike Evemy
Councillor Gina Blomefield
David Stanley, Deputy CEO
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Michael Vann
Councillor Mike Evemy
David Stanley, Deputy CEO
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Angus Jenkinson
David Stanley, Deputy CEO
Councillor Angus Jenkinson
Councillor Mike Evemy
Officer
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Officer
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Officer
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Tony Slater
Councillor Mike Evemy
David Stanley, Deputy CEO
Councillor Mike Evemy
Councillor Tony Slater
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Patrick Coleman
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Tony Slater
Councillor Mike Evemy
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Angus Jenkinson
Councillor Gina Blomefield
David Stanley, Deputy CEO
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Mike Evemy
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Angus Jenkinson
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Angus Jenkinson
Councillor Angus Jenkinson
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Patrick Coleman
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Mike Evemy
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Simon Harper, Officer
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Tony Slater
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Gina Blomefield

11 Asset Management Strategy Update

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Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Patrick Coleman
David Stanley, Deputy CEO
Officer
Councillor Jon Wareing
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Angus Jenkinson
Councillor Patrick Coleman
Officer
David Stanley, Deputy CEO
Councillor Angus Jenkinson
Councillor Gina Blomefield
David Stanley, Deputy CEO
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Angus Jenkinson
Councillor Patrick Coleman
Officer
Councillor Angus Jenkinson
David Stanley, Deputy CEO
Councillor Gina Blomefield
David Stanley, Deputy CEO
Councillor Angus Jenkinson
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Simon Harper, Officer
Councillor Gina Blomefield
David Stanley, Deputy CEO
Councillor Angus Jenkinson
Simon Harper, Officer
Councillor Angus Jenkinson
Officer
Councillor Patrick Coleman
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Angus Jenkinson
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Jon Wareing
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Michael Vann
Councillor Len Wilkins
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Simon Harper, Officer
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Tony Slater
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Jon Wareing
Councillor Patrick Coleman
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Simon Harper, Officer
Councillor Angus Jenkinson
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Gina Blomefield

12 Updates from Gloucestershire County Council Scrutiny Committees

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HOSC report pdf

Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Angus Jenkinson
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Angus Jenkinson
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Simon Harper, Officer
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Councillor Jon Wareing
Councillor Tony Slater
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Simon Harper, Officer
Councillor Gina Blomefield
Webcast Finished

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Disclaimer: This transcript was automatically generated, so it may contain errors. Please view the webcast to confirm whether the content is accurate.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:00:00

A warm welcome to everyone present including any members of the public, whether in person or watching online.

Before I go any further, the normal housekeeping, fire exits over there, the public facilities are just outside.

And please can anybody turn off or put on silent any mobile device that they may have with them.

If anyone wishes to fill the proceedings, this is permitted, provided it does not disrupt proceedings.

I also want to acknowledge and welcome the cabinet members and officers who will be engaged in responding to these reports,

to all the members of the committee and also the officers present who support overview and scrutiny in its function.

So the first item is apologies. I know that we have a few.

1 Apologies

Julia Gibson, Officer - 0:00:51

Yes we have apologies for absence from councillors David Cunningham, Naomi

Bloomer, Lisa Spivey and Claire Bloomer and Councillor Len Wilkins will be

substituting for councillor Cunningham but I think he's held up in traffic at

2 Substitute Members

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:01:07

the moment. Thank you there is should anybody be wishing to go north on the

A429 fast way there is a tremendous problem with the traffic crossing the

40 just due to traffic lights but all traffic light control due to some work

which isn't taking place. So hopefully he may well have been caught up in that.

Can now every member who is present introduce themselves starting with Angus

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 0:01:38

please. Hello good afternoon Councillor Angus

Morton East and Todman Ward.

Thank you.

Councillor Michael Vann - 0:01:48

Michael Van, Fairford North.

Councillor Tony Slater - 0:01:52

Tony Slater, evening, and Grubbles Ash.

John Waring, Bournville Wood.

Councillor Jon Wareing - 0:01:56

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:01:59

Thank you very much for that.

I also, has anybody got any declarations of interest

3 Declarations of Interest

to declare on items on the agenda?

Nope.

Good.

4 Minutes

We've got two lots of minutes to approve here. I hope you've all read through them.

Was there any item that you would like to be corrected or changed before we vote on

them? Has anybody got any comments on them?

Well, first of all, we'll do the one for the 29th of June, so we'll do that minutes first.

Any comments on that? Because I think they ought to be voted on separately.

All together? We can if we need to propose more seconds or less.

Okay well on either of those minutes, there's also the minutes on the 3rd of

August. Is everybody content that they are good records of those meetings? Right

could I have a proposer please?

Can we do 29 June on August?

I propose the August.

Is this, I'm sure you're going to manage this.

And then could we have seconders please?

And Angus or whichever.

And for those people who actually were present at the first June meeting, can you vote?

And for those of us who were there on the 3rd of August, can you vote?

Yes, you can.

Thank you very much indeed.

Matters are rising from the previous meetings.

5 Matters Arising from Minutes of the Previous Meeting

I did raise it earlier. I was wondering whether we had had any reports from Geraldine LePun?

Julia Gibson, Officer - 0:03:43

We do, they will be to follow though, they will be ready for the next meeting

but she has come back with her actions on that.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:03:54

Thank you very much. Was there anything else that somebody feels that was a yes?

Councillor Jon Wareing - 0:03:59

John? So I'd just like to respond to the comment from Juliet Layton that

regarding the first recommendation that we put forward to cabinet which is quite

comprehensive, but I do want to make the point, I didn't make it at the time.

It is on the 3rd of August.

Thank you.

Councillor Jon Wareing - 0:04:29

So the two policies referenced in the response with policy 46

and 47, which are about new facilities and expansion

of existing facilities and they're about new hotels.

So it's all development focused and that really wasn't

at all what I was seeking to address.

I was talking about how do existing communities deal with over intensity of whatever it might

be.

It could be visitors, but it could be traffic.

The response seems to be very much focused on tourism management and what I'm seeking

to move forward with is something that's much more about stewardship of communities to deal

with all sorts of intensity of use.

So I think that really needs to be minuted, that it's not specifically about tourism management,

it's about stewardship of community.

Thank you.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:05:29

Thank you, I did notice that of course it is of much personal concern of yours.

I'm actually going to say that even in Chipping Counder we have seen a huge increase in tourists,

which we welcome, but many more than it does need managing.

stewardship I think is an excellent work for using for it so I think that would

be a very good piece could we feel that right thank you my announcements I first

6 Chair's Announcements

will want to acknowledge the contribution bike made by Claire Turner

to the Oviatt scrutiny committee she almost never missed a meeting and on

several occasions efficiently took on the vice chair role she made valued

observations and comments on many topics. A new committee member to replace Claire

will be announced I believe after the by -election in Blockley. That's partly

because it changes the political balance or could change it maybe than what we

have now so I think it's going to be left after that election. The climate

change item has been moved to November as there were issues with officers on

long -term sick leave which prevented them providing their report earlier.

Item number 10 on the agenda, this is a Council performance report.

It's the first time it's been presented in this way, so it's actually putting the service

and financial report together as a combined report and also is including the strategic

risk register.

So it reads slightly differently.

It's the same information but it's put together in a more comprehensive package which we hope

will be helpful and I'm just going to welcome Len Wilkins who no doubt was caught up in

the traffic problem. Can I just let you introduce yourself now.

Councillor Len Wilkins - 0:07:22

Len Wilkins, CDC Ward Councillor for Boulton Bell and I'm subbing for David Cunner.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:07:32

Right, thank you very much. I'm glad you made it through in the end. It's very annoying.

At the next meeting of O &S, UBICO is attending,

and they would like, as far as possible, for us to give them,

especially the more complex questions in advance.

You don't have to, and you can still obviously ask questions

at the meeting, but they would value the sight of them

so that they can give more comprehensive reports

on the day.

If you send those into democratic services,

they will pass them on.

I don't believe we got any public questions.

7 Public Questions

8 Member Questions

No. And I don't believe we got any member questions either.

9 Report back on recommendations

Right. So now we go on to number nine,

which is the report back on recommendations.

I noticed when I was reading through these

that on the planning enforcement item, it is said that the,

I also wanted the, planning was going to get quarterly updates

on the situation with planning enforcement.

And I believe we also asked

that O &S receive them quarterly as well.

We would like to see them.

So I just wanted to make a note that could we also see those.

I mean, they're doing the quarterly updates

if they could be shared with O &S as well.

That's particularly on the backlog clearance strategy.

I just wanted to thank everybody who was involved

with the very detailed responses

to recommendations on the local plan.

And I thank you.

I notice, note to Councillor Bairings, addition to that,

and we've made a note of that,

but I thought it was, and all the responses

to the public members' questions as well

were detailed and informative.

Now we go on, unless anybody's got anything else

that they have on the recommendations

that they would like to note.

10, it's the Council Performance Report.

10 Council Performance report Q1 2026-2027

As I said, this is the new combined report.

I just thought, could I just make a little plea

that it would be really helpful for the annexes

to have telephone number and page numbers as well.

Because it's quite a lot to look through and you're,

it would just make it teeny weeny bit quicker.

And now who have we got?

Who's going to pick?

David is going to do, thank you.

David, could you come forward?

Thank you.

David Stanley, CFO.

Thank you.

Good afternoon, Mike.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:10:55

I think it was you or David or both of you going to, anyway,

I'll leave it to you to decide.

Councillor Mike Evemy - 0:11:03

So if we've got other, I can see at the back there.

So I'm just going to introduce the report in terms

of the overall performance and then I'll leave it to Patrick

and David to talk about the finances.

So I think as I heard you say,

I was watching outside on the webcast.

We've now got a combined report, so we're looking at finances, performance and the

risk register all in one. And hopefully that will give both this committee and

then the cabinet when we look at this on Thursday the ability to look at those

things in the round. So particularly looking at performance versus finance

service performance versus finance performance and then with that

understanding of the risks that the the council is carrying corporately.

Obviously I don't really want to go into presenting all the report as members

have it in front of them in terms of the performance but it's probably worth

noting in case members haven't been up to speed and whilst there is quite a bit

in here about an exception about local government reorganisation. There has been

announcement, reason I'm slightly late into the room was I was watching

announcement from the Secretary of State and her answering questions about local

government reorganisation being paused in 14 areas of which Gloucestershire is

one. So that's obviously relatively breaking news this afternoon and I'm

hoping by the time I get to the cabinet meeting on Thursday I'll be

able to make more of an announcement on that in response to the government's

decision but obviously a lot of the work that we have been doing has been about

that and planning for that and the financial position which I'm sure David

can talk about but yeah I think I will stop there and happy to answer members

questions. Obviously Gemma at the back also happy to answer members questions.

Councillor Patrick Coleman - 0:13:20

Thank you very much, Leader.

As members are fully aware, this is the report on the first quarter of this year, basically

April, May, June.

Whilst the exterior environment hasn't exactly improved with the continuing Gulf War pushing

fuel prices up, nevertheless, the results in the first quarter are generally quite acceptable,

if not slightly better than acceptable.

And the challenges I think are fairly outlined

within the report.

The combination of the report with,

as the leaders explained with two others,

I hope will prove a success.

It's, I think the thing that, small thing perhaps,

but building control averaging 74 % market share.

Now on and off over the decades I've looked at building control as a member of various councils

and they always seem to be struggling perhaps because they were, well almost certainly because

they were struggling, they were doing a more thorough job than their private sector competitors

in those days. But to see that we're holding on to such a high market share is a real I think

feathering in Cotswolds District Council's cap. And there are many other positive items here which

if it were another type of day in another type of place I'd probably bore

you by reading them all out for the record I won't do that now thank you

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:14:48

chair well thank you did David want to add anything at this stage I'll just add

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 0:14:53

a couple of things so the covering report is unashamedly being co -created

So it's taken the three main annexes, Annex A, B, and C, so the financial performance,

service performance, risk, and try to distil that into 500 words or less.

And then there's a section in the Coven report where it tries to knit those summaries together,

so I combine summaries.

Is there anything that when you look at all three reports, there's things that stand out?

And so what I would be pleased to receive is any feedback, bad or good, on the format

where improvements could be made in terms of there is a lot of Annex A1, Annex A2, Annex

A3, Annex B1, and the numbering of that.

So I think it was, in a sense, is it a fit, does it feel like a summary report, or does

feel like a recovery report with three separate reports within it so getting

that balance right but in terms of financial performance I think where we

are in the first quarter this year is a follow -on very much from the out term

from last year so when you look at the most material variation that reporting

on revenue budget is car park income that is a good four hundred thousand

pounds above the budgeted level.

And that is largely because when we were setting the budget for

this financial year, we did not assume that the performance from

last year would continue.

So given how good the previous financial year was when we were

doing our planning, there was that risk of that being a

one -off blip, but it is a continuing thing.

So it will be as part of the budget planning for 27 -28,

a review of what that baseline would be.

Planning fees continue to be positive, but the number of planning applications is relatively high, so there's a lot of work involved in there.

So when you look at both sides of that, there is a cost to running the planning service in its broadest sense.

So they are carrying lots of vacancies, they are filling those vacancies with lots of agency staff, and those agency staff tend to be more costly.

But that's required given the level of activity.

More broadly, towards the back of Annex A1, there are some charts that are there to test,

I suppose, presenting some of this information in a graphical format.

Does that make sense?

Are they useful?

So particularly on income, it's looking at where the income variations are and also around

vacancy management.

and what vacancy management is designed to show is are we reporting that

across the council position rather than service by service but for members that

would recall when the budget was set we did include in the budget three and a

half percent vacancy factor so we assumed that there would be a level of

churn in amongst the staffing base and a delay in recruitment that would allow us

to effectively take some of that benefit at the front end of the year. So in the quarter

one forecast, we're about, we're projecting it will be about £150 ,000 adrift of that,

but there is clearly going to be some tight work that corporate leadership team will do

and cabinet will do in terms of vetting those vacancies as they come forward and making

decisions as to whether they're filled or not. Finally, on the revenue position, I suppose

the one negative variation which is not surprising given Councillor Coleman's

comments on oil prices in the Gulf War the Yubico contract 171 ,000 net

variation majority that will be fuel costs but there are other costs in there

that are starting to creep through and what the report is recommending is to

ensure that officers continue that robust dialogue with Yubico so that

are fully aware of the council's position and seeking ways in which that can be mitigated.

And we have a further budget meeting with Yubico on Thursday morning and we'll be impressing that upon them.

In terms of capital, very briefly, paragraph 4 .4, disabled facilities grants,

there's a risk around the way in which the allocation of funding from the Better Care Fund flows through

and the very high cost of some of those pieces of work

that are being undertaken within the district

and whether that funding is coming through

as part of the pooled response.

Paragraph 4 .5 sets out that some purchase orders

have been raised for those waste vehicles,

so that will be quite a long lead in time,

but we are progressing through that.

And paragraph 4 .6 sets out the broad forecast for the year.

I would draw attention to paragraph 4 .7, which is requesting 27 ,000 to fund the pool cover

for Chippie Camden School funded out with a balance of CMI.

And paragraphs 4 .9 to 4 .13, recognising the position we're in with negotiations with our

preferred bidder on the disposal of the outer district property in Hereford.

And that's asking for delegation to ensure we can complete that

process given we'll be between cabinet meetings.

Annex A2 covers Treasury, and I did write LGR pause.

I did spend some time in the summer pausing my LGR

involvement, so clearly I was ahead of the government on this.

But I suppose to explain the format we've got,

So what we've tried to do, if you cast your mind back to the February MTFS,

attached to that in one of the annexes was a detailed run through of the budgets,

and we have replicated that in this report.

So there's a consistency in terms of how we're reporting,

and it's based on the organisational hierarchy.

So if you see governance, that effectively means anything that is, from an officer perspective,

sat with Angela Clarage as the monitoring officer.

Resources, it's anything that falls within my remit.

Communities in place, Helen, Chief Executive, Jane.

And then below that there are service areas,

below that there are cost centres.

We can go to quite a level of detail,

but what we're trying to do is be consistent

with how we're reporting.

So to give you a poor example, in previous reports,

probably the first variation that will get reported

is building control because it was the first cost centre out of the financial system. It

was BUC 001 so it was always first in the list. That may have led members to think that

was the most important variation to report but by the time you got to WST 001 which is

waste and recycling it was right at the bottom. So we're trying to organise this in a way

that's consistent and one of the challenges we'll have which I'm sure Gemma will relish

is how we can mirror some of that in the service reporting because it's not

always consistent. But there's also the challenge of identifying cabinet

portfolio holders won't necessarily reflect that organisational structure.

I'll hand over to Gemma, we'll take any questions up to you, Chair.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:22:44

I just wonder whether Gemma wants to make any points now and I was just wondering

whether we feel that we ought to be looking at the financial questions first.

I mean, it really probably doesn't matter in service questions, or should we just...

It's just that it will be different people responding.

That's why I'm asking.

What did you feel?

I think you'll be taken together.

Taken together.

Okay, so you've heard the introduction.

I would like to have any questions or comments you'd like to make, please.

Councillor Jon Wareing - 0:23:13

So under Yubico, a situation, are you confident that they are on top of the situation in so

far as you can be?

I noted the comments about people on long -term sick and so agency staffing issues.

Are we looking at kind of an overspend of the same amount as we go through each quarter,

Do you think we're going to get it back on track?

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 0:23:46

In terms of the UBICO position, I

think the majority of the forecast

is around the fuel costs.

There are some pressures on staffing.

We've been mindful that UBICO was successful in winning

the Wiltshire contract, and that went live

at the beginning of August.

So there will be some pressure there

on limited resources in terms of the overall management

strategic support. We're also mindful that having a hundred and seventy one

thousand pound net overspend reported now for the end of year, we're hoping that

will improve, but we're also mindful that as a council we don't have a bottomless

pit of money to fund that from. So one of the clear messages that I'm taking back

to you, Biko to Brian, their finance director, is that an expectation that

they will come back with, this is how we can reduce some of

those pressures going forward.

So whilst there is an element of uncertainty on what's happening

to fuel prices week by week, what we're looking at in terms

of the wider services, for example, the fuel bunker or the

fuel tank that will go into the depot will hold a significant

amount of fuel that can be bulk purchased to avoid some of that

risk around spot purchasing.

So there will be elements of mitigation that will come through during the course of the

year.

And we're also looking at other ways in which the workforce can be managed, given, I suppose,

some of that risk around if you're located and your home is a particular area, is Wiltshire

more attractive than Gloucestershire?

So one of the questions that we've been asking UBCO is what that risk is, and they think

it's a double -edged risk.

There might be staff that are currently have cheapied across to them from Wiltshire that

might be looking towards Gloucestershire as a better

location because of where they live.

So part of that risk is that fuel prices continue on their

upward spike.

There's very little we can mitigate about that.

We do have an element of money set aside in the contingency,

but in terms of communicating that back to you,

because what we didn't want to do is say it's okay to have

171 ,000 overspendable from our contingency.

That's not the position we want to be in in terms of an officer group.

I don't think it's where members want us to be.

Including with Yubico attending the next meeting of overview and scrutiny, some of those particular

points can be addressed to them directly.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:26:18

Oh, then Wilkins, please.

Thank you, Jack.

Councillor Len Wilkins - 0:26:21

Page 51, 4 .3, $1 .47 million on adverse vacancy factor starting variances.

Is there any way we can bring this down?

I mean, we started a staff retention scheme.

Is that going to help or would you expect that to continue for the future?

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 0:26:47

So the forecast at the moment is based on looking at the first quarters spend on staff,

first quarters spend on agency staff and projecting that forward and then taking into account

whether the vacancy factor that was applied to those budgets would be achieved or not.

So in some cases where a service is holding that vacancy, that's helping achieve the vacancy

factor target.

So in terms of answering the question, can something be done?

Yes, absolutely.

That's the work of corporate leadership team to ensure that

authority to fill, authority to recruit process is as robust and

tight as possible.

There will need to be a change in that position given the

announcement today from the Secretary of State around LGRB

and PORS who we have been looking at ways in which we can

either manage with existing resources or have alternative

options in place that are less costly. We do have a retention strategy that is

what was around ensuring we had the right number of staff with the right

experience to see us through to March 2028. But certainly as a corporate

leadership team we can make that commitment to both members of ONS and

Cabinet that we will be reviewing each and every vacancy that comes forward and

looking at those posts that we have not been able to fill and being very

critical with those and do we actually still require some of those posts as

they become vacant.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:28:24

Councillor Tony Slater - 0:28:28

Tony, Councillor Slater. Thank you Chair. Also on page 51 to start with there's an

overspend of 40 ,000 pounds on waste and recycling receptacles

which I'm interested in because when we discussed waste lorries and could we get

rid of the horrible blue and white sacks I was told no because we've got a

warehouse full of them so I'm interested to understand apart from the additional

housing that we've got why we've 40 grand over on waste and recycling

receptacles. I've got some questions later on in the report should I go for it or come back?

Are they related to the financial?

Because that makes it the same people answering, otherwise it's a sort of...

The second one is definitely money -related.

Too early to tell, I know, but in light of the announcement that's happening as we speak,

if it's a long pause, presumably that's going to affect how our resources are working,

because we've got lots of backfill while you guys are looking at LGR.

I'd be interested to know if there's any intention to bill the government for the

what must be millions of pounds that have been spent throughout Gloucestershire

on these these preparations and the consultations and all the other things

that have gone with it. I just wondered if that was an option.

Thank you Gertz, if I take that one, I do know from my previous role when I had

Councillor Mike Evemy - 0:30:05

Patrick's that the spend on receptacles being more than the budget is not a new

thing. That's been a problem for some time but I'll let David answer in detail

on that. On the point I think I heard one of the opposition members of

Parliament ask a very similar question to Angela Rayner. They're literally, well

you were probably driving here, Councillor Slater, and I think the answer was she

didn't really get an answer. Well they've already given some money so you know you

can use the money we've given you which in Gloucestershire's case is nine hundred

thousand pounds that we've been given. So I think it's very unlikely it's the

answer that we will get money. Obviously you know it's only just been announced

officers we haven't had any time to consider the implications. We don't know

What seems clear is that the elections next year will be

for this council and not for the new authority

because it seems almost impossible that they can deal

with all the everything they want to deal with

and get a structural changes order in by March of next year.

But they didn't totally rule that out, Angela Rayner,

if you watch it later.

So yeah, we're all living with that uncertainty now,

which is obviously then mitigate, you know, officers and us as a cabinet are

gonna have to look at our work going forward in light of what's been

announced this afternoon because clearly we had reasonably assumed that this

council was coming to an end on the 31st of March 2028 and that now seems

unlikely if not not happening at all but we don't know how long it might we might

have to plan for and obviously the uncertainty of that is particularly when

you come on and when we get into the budget discussions and looking at our

future finances going forward obviously what we're looking at is 28 -29 looks

like it's now going to be a year for us rather than the new council don't know

Councillor Mike Evemy - 0:32:13

beyond that. David. We haven't done anything precipitate with our assets I

I think it's fair to say, Tony, because I think at the end of the day, there is a legal

process which the government was telling us to follow.

We've got a paper at the cabinet on Thursday, which probably won't now go forward about

a joint committee.

But yeah, I think when we've got some more certainty, then we can make decisions.

I mean, fortunately, David might be able to clarify.

I don't think we've made any precipitate decisions

around assets based on an LGR decision, which

now has been postponed.

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 0:32:57

So in terms of waste and recycling receptacles,

I'll use a non -accountancy term.

It's not that the budget is overspent.

It's the budget is inadequate for the demand that is there.

One of the questions that I posed Peter when she reports this is what's the attrition rate?

So are we replacing more of those receptacles than

Comparable neighbours is it of our is what we're buying of poor quality so they don't last as long

She's satisfied that actually what we're seeing in this district is no different from other districts

I think what we've got to look at is to ensure that we're getting adequate

contributions from new properties. So there is in place for developers of more

strategic sites, section 106 agreements that ensures they pay for those. But part

of the challenge with this is how do you slow down the replacement of receptacles?

In a sense you ought to make it more difficult for people to get those

receptacles but that's not necessarily the best outcome for our residents. So I

I think part of that will be worked through by Peter,

but I can assure members here that we're on top of that

and reviewing it and it has been a budget problem

for two or three years, but marginally so.

I wouldn't say that we're spending

hundreds of thousands more.

It's 10 to 20 to 30 ,000 pounds a year.

So within that context, the overall waste

and recycling operation of nine million pounds plus,

I think that's generally where we are.

In terms of assets, I think you got a paper

that you're considering later on in this agenda in terms of conversations with an LGR flavour.

We've made no decisions as an officer group or members. I haven't made a decision on assets

in terms of disposals, acquisitions or anything. Mindful that we have most of our assets are

operational so this building, the leisure centres, the waste depot. So we have been

continuing to ensure they are adequate. There is quite a long list as you will

see on the following agenda item of assets that we have. We have engaged with

parish and town councils particularly around toilets so there is active

negotiations with a couple of parish areas about whether they can take those

on which would involve the asset and the service transferring. But beyond that I

we were working towards the pre section 24 issue which is when the structural

change order would have come in in March that would have provided the shadow

authority some assurance that a council such as us or Gloucester City wouldn't

give away the family silver and make that following authority the new unitary

worse off as a result. I think with the pause that we've now got where we need to take stock

is we need to review I suppose that position because that pause may be for a short period

of time. I know the Secretary of State referenced a rapid review. Those rapid reviews could take

until spring of next year. The government like to work in season so I'm taking spring to mean July.

Right, Councillor Waring.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:36:24

Councillor Jon Wareing - 0:36:27

Would it be possible to see the breakdown of the parking income by car park, please?

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 0:36:33

Absolutely, I can provide that to members outside of this meeting.

Does anybody have, I'm not sure, Councillor Jenkinson has some questions?

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:36:43

Councillor Colman wants to come there.

I have got some questions to introduce but Councillor Jenkins.

Thank you very much chair.

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 0:36:55

I think the first comment I'd like to make is to say thank you very much to the officers for preparing this

large substantial report.

Thank you also for giving consideration to how it might be improved by consolidating and trying to find a connexion

between performance and money. It's a really important connexion. So I think that's an important step.

And I would like to see that progress.

I'll talk a little bit, I'll ask some questions in relation to that.

But I think it's important to recognise, and a lot of work has gone into this,

and it's obviously something that belongs to a statutory requirement at one level,

but I do think that we have a diligent attitude to it in general,

and we want to always do a better job,

and it's in that light that we ask these quizzical questions.

The drum I keep beating is the question of systemic

approaches, so I also was going to bring up a

question regarding UBICO and the transport situation.

Fortunately, well, for me, my question, partners, the

one you've already heard, I have a concern that there

may be a bit of a systemic issue here to do with the

fact that delays in the replacement fleet probably

quite a long -term uncertainty over costs of

energy, fuel, and so on.

To what extent do you see that this is really a

systemic issue, and how much of that systemic issue is

circumstances beyond our control, beyond our ability

to anticipate, that have just thrust upon us and we

have to live with?

And what can we learn from the present situation, not only about decisions we've made in the past, but what we need to do in the future?

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 0:38:47

I think there's a couple of things that are of relevance that I can give you.

So one is, in terms of the relationship between the Council and UBICO,

UBICO deliver the services that we have asked them to deliver,

but the council retains all the financial

and service performance risk associated with that.

So in terms of the financial performance,

if the cost of oil has gone up

and the cost of putting diesel in the fleet of vehicles

has gone up, that is our cost.

There needs to be as part of that,

then a discussion with UBICO

where you're looking for UBICO to come forward and say,

well, we're buying fuel at this price.

However, if you did this, this and this, you could buy fuel at that price.

Now, some of that requires the council to think differently.

So we've got a depot. That depot did have in prior years a fuel bunker.

It doesn't, and we're putting a fuel bunker in.

That will do two things, or probably three things.

One was it enables a move away from diesel to HVO,

because you can't buy HVO at a normal forecourt.

Secondly, it provides some resilience.

So if there is a fuel shortage or a fuel strike, as there was many, many years ago, by having

your own supply allows you to continue providing that service.

And thirdly, regardless of whether you put HVO or diesel into it, you'll get the more

advantageous price of bulk buying.

Part of that is what I would expect Yubico to be coming to the council proactively with,

alongside any other cost pressure that they may have.

And I think that's where that systemic issue needs to be addressed,

is how you because see themselves not just as you've asked us to do X,

we're going to do X, and it might cost more than you have allowed us to,

but to work more in partnership with the council to say,

well, we know we've got nine million pounds to spend.

At the moment we think we're going to spend 9 .2, but if the council considered these adjustments,

that figure might be a different number that's hopefully lower.

That's, I think, the change that's needed.

That's been very difficult for Yubico to do because effectively they're running eight separate contracts,

so they have to have eight different discussions.

But understanding how are they working with Cheltenham or Tewkesbury who might have a very different cost exposure to us,

and that learning, this is what Chilbury have done,

this is what Cheltenham have done,

rather than treating each contract as an isolated issue.

I think that's, to me, where the heart of the mitigation

will come from.

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 0:41:42

I think that that's an ongoing process that the cabinet

and officers are engaged in, and you're

anticipating positive results.

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 0:41:50

Certainly, in terms of how officers are approaching that,

there's been very positive contribution from Peter as head of waste and recycling

in terms of providing that view as to what the council's requirements are and

ensuring that is front and centre in terms of the thinking with UBICO and

then joining that up with myself and Michelle from the financial aspect so

that when we're having discussions as we will be having on Thursday around the

for next year. We're aware of where Peter has been from a strategic and

operational perspective but also matching that with a financial and

clearly there is on the member side some read across that I might want to say something on.

Councillor Mike Evemy - 0:42:39

I will. I'm the shareholder for the council on the UBCO board.

Obviously, the last bulk of the work is done by Peter and David

and the officers talking to the staff at UBCO.

But sort of the biggest strategic issues and Andrea,

as the cabinet member, and myself as a shareholder,

are there, you know, essentially when we need to,

to have the conversations at the very senior levels in UBCO

to back up what our officers are saying.

But absolutely, we do do that.

And from time to time, I meet with Beth and, you know, who's

the MD, as you know.

And, you know, when there are issues and things seem to be a

bit slow or, you know, I can ask, they can be escalated to

me and I can escalate them directly to her.

And I have done that in the not too distant past.

So, yeah, that's how we approach UBCO.

But David is right.

I mean, obviously they operate eight separate contracts.

And, you know, that has its challenges for them.

But I think it was mentioned earlier about Wiltshire.

So they have got an additional senior person coming on board

off the back of that because the recognition of the requirement

to have another person at a very senior level in the

organisation to manage, you know, the increased size

of the business.

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 0:44:12

I assume that you're the representative of the shareholder as opposed to being the shareholder.

No, I am this council shareholder.

Councillor Mike Evemy - 0:44:20

I am the shareholder of, as the leader of the council, I am this council shareholder

in Yubico because Yubico is wholly owned by the eight local authorities of which Cotswold

District Council is one.

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 0:44:36

It's a pity you can't sell it and disappear there in that case.

But being serious.

Last question on this point.

The plan is to shift over towards an alternative energy

source, that this would be sourced from recycled food

waste oil, or food oil, from cooking.

Are we still confident that there

will be adequate supplies of that at a reasonable price, or is there reason to believe that

that might be under long -term threat?

And related question, is there – we're not – still on the same topic – would

it not make sense, or is it possible that we could go further in developing synergy

with the other seven partners in order to achieve better economies and service levels

everywhere because it is quite a difficult thing having eight different contracts to manage.

In terms of the HVO,

the alternative fuel,

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 0:45:41

part of the conversation, I'll give you a very finance perspective.

In the early part of this financial year, we got some information from

UBCO, in terms of their purchases of HVO that they had made for other partners and some

market information that indicated around about a 20 to 25 percent margin on diesel price

was what was coming through.

In sort of around sort of May, June, July time, I can't remember the exact date, but

there were about two councils that we became aware of that had said they were doing HVO,

had moved to HVO that have now moved back to diesel.

One was North Hertfordshire and the other was, off the top of my head I think it was

East Hampshire.

So we're mindful of that challenge that from a purely financial point of view, if you're

putting 508 ,000 litres of diesel into vehicles and it's costing X, if you switch over to

HVO, is that going to cost you more than X and how certain are you of that continued

supply?

On an operational point of view, there is the opportunity to mix, so you don't have

to have a fleet purely run on HVO. You can switch between HVO and diesel. From a purely

climate point of view, you would see the benefit in terms of the impact on this Council's emissions

reduced significantly by switching over to HVO. It is a difficult equation to balance

and I think one that Cabinet will need to consider

going forward.

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 0:47:15

That would be true as long as we could stick to the commitment

not to go to palm oil sources and plant grown oils,

because that would actually have a detrimental effect.

I have other questions that I could ask you,

but I think it would be change of subject,

so I'll hand back to you.

Councillor Mike Evemy - 0:47:32

Angus, can I answer the point you were making?

And I know, because obviously we've not got either Peter

or Andrea in the room,

But I do know that both of them are working collaboratively across Gloucestershire.

So that's with the other six councils in Gloucestershire to and certainly before this afternoon's decision with a view about how can the services sort of basically be planned to come together.

Assuming we're going to have a single council for Gloucestershire because you're right.

Clearly at the moment we've got you know, there's a benign.

So there's the seven councils in Gloucestershire because the county is waste disposal authority.

We've got all six districts and boroughs and we've got West Oxfordshire and now we've got Wiltshire.

And they're all running separate services and obviously looking for efficiencies in how that's done.

So that is something that I know Andrea and Pete are very passionate about and they're trying to work towards that.

I think just to add to what David has said is, just to be absolutely clear for the record,

We've not made any decision to change anything that we were proposing to do.

Obviously as and when the tank is there and fuel is required to go in it for the

lorries, that's a point we'll have to look at the situation as it is at that

time and the costs and the implications of that but it's certainly still our

aspiration to as a cabinet to take follow through the decision we took and

move to HVO. Can I just ask when we expect the tank to be ready and serviceable?

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 0:49:10

I don't know that I am aware that there have been some visits to the site to

identify the location. It is in a triple SI. There will need to be planning

involved. I would suggest end of the calendar year is when it could be

There's additional bits to go with it so that you put in place a system that allows people

to take fuel out, but not everyone to take fuel out.

So that's my best guess.

Clearly, Peter will be in a far better position than me to advise when that's likely to happen,

but I'm assuming end of the calendar year, given how long that could take to get the

planning.

Councillor Mike Evemy - 0:49:56

I think I was reading through the corporate plan performance report,

and I thought there was something in there.

So I couldn't manage to find it while David was talking, Tony,

but if I do, I'll come back to you, because it's definitely one

of the things, it's one of the tasks on the list of things

that we're obviously intending to do.

So it should have an update in the update column,

but I haven't quite found it yet.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:50:21

Yes, and we will be having Nubico at our next meeting so we'll be able to go, you know,

to raise it again or raise or give your question in advance.

Councillor Waring, I've got some questions but Councillor Waring and then I'll have Michael,

thank you.

Councillor Jon Wareing - 0:50:37

I was just looking at the snapshot of long -term empty properties.

Given the numbers 938, and I know there's probably some things that you can't do much

with but thinking back to the conversation about the local plan 938

seems like a lot of property is that it is there nothing that we can do to

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:51:04

actually make that accessible for people to live in I just got a cover that I saw

an article yesterday about long -term and across the country and they're going up

all over the country and everyone is struggling with this I don't actually

understand the full cause for it I don't know whether anybody's got an answer but

it does seem to be an increasing problem and I'm sure CDC is doing all it can to

Councillor Mike Evemy - 0:51:26

mitigate that. Yeah so there is obviously one of the reports there and it defines

long -term as over six months which most generally people probably wouldn't

define long -term as more than six months but it is something that we talked about

quite regular basis we have a dedicated officer in our housing team who works on

this so we don't just let these properties sort of you know sit there

there is active work to try to encourage people to bring their property back into

use a lot of the time it can be you know the reasons can be we've talked about

this at previous meetings I'm sure John around things like death and therefore

waiting for probate in order to be able to sell the property so absolutely it's

an area where I think we want to have fewer obviously we don't want to have a

property sitting empty. I think the figure over two years is the report says

375 at the minute and we're now monitoring that separately so yeah

absolutely we want to bring empty properties back into use but there can

be there can be a whole lot of reasons why they're not and actually as you I'm

sure you're aware people watching at home may not be aware actually getting

people to essentially put their property in order when they don't want to

is really difficult, expensive, and what we do is we encourage them and we also

charge them more if they want to keep it empty with doubling their council tax

and you know giving them financial penalties for doing so but some people

still choose to keep their property empty for whatever reason. Out of interest

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:53:03

on that one I'm aware that, if it's actually actively for sale a property

you don't have to pay the double council tax.

Does that apply in Cotswold?

This certainly applies in some other, because you are,

and I think some of the problems with long -term empty properties

is the struggle to sell them at the moment.

So there are a number of exemptions

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 0:53:28

that are open to homeowners, one of which

will be, is it actively for sale?

Are you going through probate?

So they can be applied in a particular way

so that they grant maximum exemptions from that.

But once those exemptions have been exhausted,

and that's really challenging with a property market

where houses may not sell for what they're up for,

that's when that period of time is finished

in terms of the exemption and the premium is applied.

But we work as a council, so Mandy Fathers,

who's the head of revenue and benefits,

or liaison may when we do get these issues to make sure that individuals

have had the maximum benefit available before any premium is applied. So we'd

always encourage homeowners to seek out the revenues and benefits service to see

how they can support that process.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:54:28

Thank you for that. Right, my question, the first one was, we did touch on it

at the last meeting before that and it's why the land charges are

And I mean, the target is 90 percent done within 10 days, and it's 39 .67.

But at the same time, there are fewer coming forward.

And it sort of mentions something about the income shortfall,

but I wouldn't imagine that has any bearing on the,

so the financial side is probably not affecting the service side,

I wouldn't imagine this.

But it does seem to be taking, you know, we did mention it before,

and I know you are, there are processes there to try and improve this, but it still seems to be struggling.

Councillor Mike Evemy - 0:55:16

Can we go to Gemma? I don't know whether you are able to answer the point about land charge,

if you've been speaking to the service directly yourself.

Officer - 0:55:24

Yeah, so the land charge services under quite a big review at the moment and

most of the improvement work is set to take place in the autumn.

So is it to do the 10 days?

Sorry, I missed the question.

I'm so sorry.

Sorry.

Yes.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:55:42

Only 39 .67 are completed within 10 days

against the target of 90%.

And there was a mention that there are fewer applications.

So therefore, you would have thought

there was a lesser workload.

It does also mention there's been a bit of an income

shortfall.

Obviously, if you have less applications,

you have less income.

but I don't think the income would actually impact the actual delivery of that service.

So I just wanted to know what, you know, I understand that it is being looked at,

but I'm not quite sure why it's such a struggle at the moment.

Officer - 0:56:21

I think it's a bit more multifaceted than that.

It's not just to do with the number of applications that are coming in and therefore the income dropping.

I think there's quite a lot to be done around the process changes,

which is why that's had an impact on the time for the turnaround.

It is getting better.

We have put some quick wins in, but I do think it has been a long process.

The indicator has been red for quite a long time, which I'm quite aware of.

But out of all of the decisions that we want the service to make about what they want

to do to improve going forward, I think you're going to see a real change coming

in quarter three, so that's when it hopefully will be green.

I wouldn't stake it on my job on it, but it hopefully will be green by then.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:57:01

I was just wondering whether it's that the convincing process seems to be getting more complicated.

They ask more questions, which means that the searches get more involved and you have to dig deeper.

They're very, very long, much longer than they used to be in the past.

So whether that has part of the impact on it and whether we could be using co -pilot or AI to help with this.

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 0:57:22

So if I may, Chair, page 136 of the PAC,

which has got the service performance graph showing

the drop, there's a couple of sentences in there

that I think were highlighted.

It says, land charges performance has been volatile.

A combination of resource intensive processes, products,

and staffing challenges have led to the current position.

and there's a strategic recovery plan in place.

I would surmise and suggest that the staffing challenges,

having the right number of staff that

are able to process the land charges is the cause of that.

And there has been active recruitment, as Gemma

referenced, to ensure that that resource is higher.

So I think what we've seen is an increase in complexity,

but not matched by an increase in the staffing results.

And that's led to a drop in the target.

And when you look at page 83 of Annex A1,

we are below our income budget.

Now, one of the key things from land charges

is we have to ensure that we're not making

a surplus from land charges.

We need to be able to match the income

and the expenditure over a period of time.

So when it says it's been volatile in recent years,

I think that demonstrates that the resourcing hasn't been right in that service area, which

has resulted in that dip in performance.

Thank you for that.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:58:54

My next one really is sort of a financial to a degree really.

A penalty charging notices for parking have increased significantly, the revenue from

that.

And I think we have now an extra additional traffic warden.

Has that changed it?

or is it because more people are either struggling to pay on their phones or the metre and therefore, for whatever reason, haven't paid for their parking?

Or perhaps overstaying in the car parks is more frequent.

What is sort of behind these extra huge amount of penalty charge notices issued? Thank you.

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 0:59:30

I can talk about the financial performance, but I think it would be best if I went back to Maria and Susan in terms of getting the actual what's going on on the ground.

But I think the income target for penalty charge notices

reduced quite significantly because we were underachieving

against that two years ago.

That was largely because the number of staff doing

active enforcement was low and their working patterns

were not quite where the council needed them to be.

There has been a significant change in their staffing level

and that has allowed, I suppose, the financial performance

to increase.

One of the things I would say is that the council is not allowed to target particular

car parks or particular areas, but it can use data to help inform that.

So I think a more visible enforcement presence and a more frequent enforcement presence has

led to that increase in penalty charge notices.

What I will do is get some further information from the service in terms of how many staff

involved, what their general pattern is, but I think Gemma's gesticulating wildly

at the back that may have some of that information to hand. I was just going to say that there is

Officer - 1:00:41

actually a breakdown for why the PCNs are issued as well so we can see if

there's been a change in people overextending their stay or just not

paying for a ticket at all or whether they've gone over the lines or so

they can actually get that breakdown and I think we've got that going back as

well so we'll be able to give you a bit more information around that.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:01:01

Can I just add something that may be slightly plainer

than David?

Councillor Mike Evemy - 1:01:04

We have an improved service.

The service wasn't really,

the enforcement service wasn't really operating

at the standard I think that members would expect.

And it is now.

And I think that's large part

to why we're now seeing an increase in PCNs.

That doesn't mean that, you know,

our staff are being difficult or whatever.

I thought, my take on it, but I'm happy to see the numbers,

is that actually it's because we've got a better organised staff, staffing regime

and the processes behind that are being followed well and that is generating a

bit more revenue than as I said David said that essentially we were

underperforming on PCN revenue because we have to budget for it even though

it's not targeted we have to budget for an amount and I think we're now doing

better at that. So yeah because obviously whilst it's a for the person who gets

the ticket it's not very helpful for the for the people that are then able to

park because the person you know doesn't overstay next time or whatever it's it

is an important part of the service especially where you know car parts in

some of our places are quite busy. Well thank you for that that would be good to

have the breakdown it's particularly you know there are always some concerns that

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:02:18

some people struggle to pay one way or another and whether that is part of it

But I don't, I'm sure it's not the whole thing.

My sort of last scenario, well, I was going to,

there's a ubiquitous one, but I think I can ask

that at the next meeting.

And it was really that we spent 3 .281 million

on the new vehicles, on the order for them.

But we have got 6 million set aside.

So there is, and I know you're looking into electric vehicle,

but there's still quite a lot of money unspent on those.

And the other one was on this capacity building earmarked reserves built

up from budget surplus.

I just wondered whether it actually has already got anything in its piggy bank,

or whether that is just waiting.

This will be picking up any surplus money from the budget or one -off benefits.

So those are the two other questions on finance.

So in terms of the Yupiko fleet, so 6 million in the current year,

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 1:03:17

And off the top of my head, about 1 .5 million in next year.

So purchase orders being raised for most of the vehicles,

I think the electric vehicle is the one that hasn't had that

purchase order raised, largely to do with ensuring that there

is the charging mechanism in place in the depot.

Otherwise, you run the risk of the vehicle turning up and not

having an adequate charging position available.

Certainly in the conversations I've been having with Peter on a

fortnightly basis where she's been updating me on where we've

got to, it's ensuring that we order the right vehicle.

So the specification is correct.

So that does wade into a lot of the weeds in terms of collecting

the soft recyclable film and other plastics in the new

calendar, new financial year, so speccing the compartments

on the back of the new recycling vehicles adequately

to contain that and mixing cardboard and paper together.

So that may have led to a little bit of a delay in some

of those purchase orders being raised.

I would also say that there was a degree of risk priced

into that $6 million. So when Peter was preparing the detailed schedule with Yubico, what we

were uncertain of is what the market price would be for the specification we wanted.

That is coming in slightly below that risk. And I think over the course of the next couple

of months, Peter will finalise that position. But there will also be a need to look forward

to what we may need to procure during 27 -28, because there is still an ongoing vehicle

replacement programme. What we can see with capital programmes is that artificial or

arbitrary date 31st of March 1st of April for things like vehicles or assets

of a building type that that distinction becomes a bit blurred however I would

say that I think it is important for the council to make that decision to commit

resources rather than just saying well there's a bit of money here and a bit of

in that year so we'll merge the two and say everything's fine so there will be

a need for the council to consider the future acquisition of vehicles in a

forthcoming report. And in terms of the capacity at Building Reserve so

there is some funding in there the out -term report indicated I think

off the top of my head around 700 ,000 was available we're topping that up. I have

been working through but haven't finalised it yet because it will be part of the budget

Strategy Report in October is what the commitments are from

that Building Capacity Reserve, because this was about ensuring

that we had the right support for service delivery going

forward, not only because some members of staff would be

involved in LGR, but ensuring, given some of our recruitment

retention issues with the LGR issue, that we were putting

those resources where it was needed.

And I think there has been quite a pull on that with planning in

particular over the last six months or so so that will be part of a

Consideration in the budget strategy report that this committee and cabinet will consider in October

Thank you very much yes

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:06:48

Councillor Michael Vann - 1:06:51

Couple of couple of points

Page 80

CIL 65 ,000 net underspend

That seems like we've got one less person than was originally thought was necessary.

And bearing in mind how important getting CIL money out to benefit the good people of the COSFOLs,

and after today for another two years longer than previously anticipated,

I actually prefer a bit of a review to see whether or not it was sensible to let that

person go or whatever the circumstances were.

Anyway, I've got another question, totally different part.

Page – it's been mentioned already.

Page 136, land charges searches.

I will frame my one sentence summary here.

This is so poor.

The word volatile just does not go with a written series of questions appearing on the desk and answers going out.

Please, a report in the not too distant future to show a serious improvement and for that

to be sustained.

This is poor.

It affects people moving.

They don't move.

You've got to wait.

Anyway, I've said enough.

This is potentially anger making.

Councillor Mike Evemy - 1:08:55

If I can answer the bit about land charges.

I totally get it.

Yeah, obviously as you say when people are waiting,

we're not hitting the 10 days.

I think the average is about 13, which isn't obviously within the 10 days,

but it's not terrible, but it's not good enough.

So you're right, Michael, to challenge us on that.

I think David might talk about, I know with particularly

with CIL, we were in a situation where essentially the postholder

who was supporting ourselves and West Oxfordshire essentially is

now working full -time at West Oxfordshire.

So, and that really wasn't of our making.

That was, so I don't know whether David can add a little

bit more to that in terms of where we are in terms of supporting so totally

get your point Michael you know we've got we've just gone out there and said

we've got four million pounds we want to make sure that we give it out obviously

we were talking about before we stop existing but it's important that the

sale that's been paid by the developers and that people who is then used to

support our communities and obviously we need professional support to make sure

that's done in the right way. So I'll just hand to David to say a bit more about that.

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 1:10:16

So in terms of community infrastructure levy, so the council is able to take a

five percent administrative contribution from SIL. In the past that's being used

to support an individual that's been employed by both us and West. In terms of,

I'll get an update from Helen on the basis that Helen hasn't been

suggesting that that post needs filling tomorrow because we

can't deliver that administrative support to CIL

and the way in which this is being drafted which suggests

that that is being delivered in a different way.

So in effect, the wider way in which the planning services

operating is providing that support to the CIL process is a

fairly administrative process bound by legislation, so it sets out when notices need to be issued,

when demands are issued, and how that money should be collected. So I shall get a fuller

response from Herrland in terms of how they're covering that, but I think your concerns in

terms of making sure that the Council has adequate resource to ensure that the four

million that we're looking to distribute can be distributed effectively and we're able

collect future seal money over the next year or two. I'll follow up for you.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:11:40

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 1:11:44

Councillor Jenkins did you have... Yes. Thank you very much chair. So I have a

second question also of a systemic nature across this range and I'm very

grateful to Councillor van for bringing up that point because I'm going to shift

the target from page 13 of this set to this page.

But it doesn't matter.

There are many pages here where it appears.

So one of the questions you asked, David, at the beginning

was did we value the use of graphic presentations?

And I would say that we do, generally.

I think that even those who are very numerate and number

and work well with numbers.

Human beings have pattern recognition and pictures help us to understand things very

well.

What matters, therefore, is particularly how that is done.

Taking the example that Councillor Vann has given, where on superficial basis, and he

may well be right, and I suspect he is, that this is a systemic problem, but actually this

This picture doesn't tell us whether it is or not.

It's, and this is a point I brought up on a number of

occasions at scrutiny, and on one occasion a group of us went

away and we looked at how we might introduce better

techniques for measuring process.

And I'm aware that this is not the time to do an education

session, but for the sake of ensuring that we all know what

what I'm talking about, it's more than 50 years since the

science of how you design presentation, graphic

presentations to show whether a system is in control or not

in control.

It's in control if it can routinely deliver the results

that are, that it is designed to produce.

It is out of control when it cannot do that.

It's really critical to understand which you're in.

Because if it is not routinely in control, the job is to tighten

up how you operate it so it is in control, so it's well run.

So if people just don't bother turning up and things like that,

that's probably disciplines that need to be put in.

If the system can't deliver the target, that's a different

problem.

So you have a specification, the target is a specification, and

you have to design a system that will deliver it to that

specification.

Now, in order to be able to do it using this control chart

methodology that's being used, you need three standard

deviations, and you have, there are precise rules for

specifying whether or not there is a certain number of

deviations that tell you it is out of control within a period,

and you need a certain number of measures.

We are not following that.

We are using one standard deviation.

So the fact that it looks like it's outside the thing doesn't

give us statistical clarity about what is going on.

Unless we start using three systems, the right number of

data points, and we start using three standard deviations, we

will not know whether the system is in control or not.

Moreover, when the system is out of control or when a result

happens that is anomalous, what you would normally do is give

an explanation of why it is anomalous, which is what

that Councillor van is looking at.

So my question is whether the Council might be prepared

to examine this, what I've just been describing for itself,

so that it thoroughly understands it,

and considers whether this might not be an appropriate thing

for the Council to consider adopting in the future.

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 1:15:36

I think this is a performance -related question, and in terms of how, I suppose Gemma and I

will take this away, and when you look at some of the graphical representations of

performance, what you're not clear, particularly on the land charges, is what's the root cause

of that.

It says performance has been volatile, which also means it's not been where it needs to

be, but it's not explained why that performance is where it is.

So it's not looked at, are the resources available to deliver the demand adequate or not adequate?

Are the processes taking longer or shorter than they were before?

Now the bit I don't know, Councillor Jenkinson, is whether we have the availability of that

data to put into this type of report and whether that would make a more meaningful report to

members of Cabinet and overview and scrutiny.

So I think it's one that I will take away with Gemma to see, understand what are the

additional data points that we have available.

Can they be presented in a way that is meaningful and actually does provide that clarity?

Now, whether that moves away from some of the graphs we have

here and introduces a bit more complexity, but I think one of

the key things we've got here is having a report that's easy to

understand and graphically straightforward, but I

appreciate there might be areas that the committee and cabinet

would sooner focus on and have that greater information.

But I believe Mike will want to say something on that.

Can I respond to that first?

Well, can I?

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 1:17:21

Thank you, David.

I want to be clear.

The result of what I'm proposing would make it more clear to everybody.

It would make it more obvious what's going on.

You undoubtedly have data on many of these available.

No question.

You just have to use it.

In some cases, you might find that you just have to collect,

instead of doing it on a monthly basis or a weekly basis or something,

you might collect it on a daily basis instead.

And of course there'll be variation, but it will work.

And what this will tell you is exactly what you're talking about.

It will tell you, we don't have a system that can reliably deliver,

so we have to get it.

Or we do have one, but something has happened, and it's happened,

and then you can say why that odd thing happened that was unusual,

although the system is reliable.

It will give you the control you want and it will enable the people in those systems to start to manage it themselves

So it creates more self -organising capability and this is a science scientific method

So just talking about it if you don't understand the science, of course

What I'm talking about is what is he talking about when you do understand the science it becomes transparent

Councillor Mike Evemy - 1:18:36

I was going to say a long time ago I did a degree and half that was in statistics.

And I remember the whole, I think I have some understanding of what you're saying,

Angus, but obviously I'm not an officer and I'm not dealing with these numbers

day to day for my job. But I'm looking over at the GMR in terms of

essentially, if I understand correctly what you're saying, is

essentially, if we look at that just that example about land charges, is the

performance at 13 days or the performance of numbers within 10 days

statistically an outlier so is it if we were performing as we were anticipate

performing would that would that result occur you know less than one in a

hundred times essentially are we saying and I think instinctively we sort of

know that it must be but I guess it what you're just asking is a little bit more

rigour around that is that I'm Gemma wanted to say something sir

Officer - 1:19:35

It was just to say that we actually introduced the control charts.

I'm not sure when it was, but it was a little while ago.

And I think we probably do need to review that because we have got these like tolerance

bands in other dashboards that we have to say whether it goes below or above.

That to be said, it's not across all of the services.

So some services are better at using data to manage their performance than others.

But I think we can absolutely review it.

And I think the reason why we went for the one standard deviation in the first place

is because the pandemic really shook things up.

But I actually noticed from our charts that they are post -pandemic,

so we should probably revert to three standard deviations.

So we'll have a look at that for next time.

Thank you.

I should provide a reading list.

This is probably related to you too.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:20:19

On page one to two, the telephone survey.

As I understand it, we can't get the data on this.

As you have to have, is it a hundred customers

reporting in order to make it work. Therefore it seems it's a rather

pointless exercise if it can't actually be fulfilled. Is there any way... it was

comparing us to the other councils and we don't have the data because it said

something about we haven't got a hundred people, you have to have a hundred people

reporting in order to make it. I'm not sure how they're reporting in or what

Officer - 1:20:56

what it is. What is the issue there? So that's to do with the ranking

system which is in the kind of benchmarking which is for a number of councils across the UK.

So I think it's important to note that we have got the data for it. There's some, I can't remember

what it's called, but it like records what people say and when they leave feedback which can be

quite funny to listen to sometimes it doesn't always get it right. But from that information

they the team do actually look at it to see if there's anything they could actually pull from

to actually improve services.

But the ranking, there has to be at least 100 pieces of feedback

left in order to do that.

I think they quite consistently do deliver

that for the telephone.

So I don't see there's any reason why they shouldn't be

in for the June.

That's why they weren't in there for June.

It could have been like literally there was 99

and it didn't quite make it through.

It's quite frustrating.

But I think it's important to note

that customer satisfaction is always really high.

I was just aware of it.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:21:52

was just it's just a blank and it's and I did realise you've got to get a hundred

in a council practise has got a bigger number of residents you've got a higher

chance of getting to the hundred figure also there are and there ways to

Officer - 1:22:05

actually automate it so they get pushed through so it's more like a kind of it's

not something that we subscribe to at the moment I think they've investigated

that within the service if it's that they could do but it's reliant on a lot

of thing and also June it's like creeping into holiday time as well so

but there's less people to less maybe less phone calls to put through. Thank

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:22:24

you. I've got some questions on the risk element of this. Does anybody else have

Councillor Tony Slater - 1:22:32

any other questions? Councillor Slater. Yes our old friend Planning Enforcement

it's another one of Angus's not doesn't appear to be performing. As a side issue

reasons cases closed we've got ten orange ones, eight blue ones, seven dark

blue ones, but there isn't a key. I couldn't find anywhere that has the reasons they were

closed. But more importantly, we've gone up from our classic 638 or whatever it was, we're

up to 743 open cases, which to me appears to be getting worse rather than better. I

note from the fuller report that the new processes should start coming on stream at the end of

the summer and being as though we're at the end of the summer now, can we have an update

on where those processes are and when we can expect to see the numbers going down again?

Can you repeat the page?

Sorry, we're on page 135, the planning enforcement cases of the big report.

And just while I've got the speaker, in answer to Councillor Evony's search for the action

on the fuel tank, it's on page 148 at the top.

I just note that it mentions it's a tank for HVO, but I think that probably needs updating

to be HVO slash diesel, depending on what we buy.

Councillor Mike Evemy - 1:24:08

I think it is a tang for HVO but you could put diesel in it if you chose to.

That's what we're getting it for but David's gonna come back on the planning

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 1:24:20

enforcement. In terms of planning enforcement the council's engaged an

individual member of staff to undertake a thorough review of all those backlog

cases, that's due to report back to corporate leadership team.

I'm just checking the agenda for Wednesday.

It's not on there.

I think it's the following Wednesday.

That's looking at how to triage those cases and how to ensure that we're clearing the

backlog, not clear, but also taking steps to avoid the backlog growing.

So the commission for that was given the historical performance and enforcement was poor to clear

those cases and take enforcement action where it was absolutely appropriate.

So I think you will see an improvement in that in subsequent service performance reports.

But I haven't seen the work that Carl has undertaken.

and Carl's being commissioned by Jane and Helen

following, I suppose, some key member involvement

in wanting to see enforcement progressed.

Carl's been doing quite a big piece of work

in terms of understanding what the processes are,

and I think that's the reference that's in here

to the end of the summer.

So Carl's engaged part -time during August,

is now here full -time,

because he was finishing off a previous placement and that's where that will

come back to corporate leadership team. Corporate leadership team will then discuss it

with relevant cabinet members and put in place some of those recommendations that

Karl will be making. So I would expect that performance to improve over the

Councillor Mike Evemy - 1:26:04

next two or three quarters. Can I come back to what David has said is that

I had half an hour with Carl and I know Councillor Layton has as well in terms

of an intro conversation and we certainly both relate to what members

were looking for and pointed him back to your discussion to have a look at what

you were talking about when you were last talking about this so he got the

understanding about where members are coming from and I think you know he

certainly impressed me and I know he's impressed other colleagues officers in

terms of his understanding and what he can do. We've just got to give him a little

bit of time to do that because he only literally started on a part -time

basis in August. But as David has said I think he is coming to both CLT and then

he'll be coming to a meeting of the informal cabinet as well and I think

you've got him coming or that you've got the subject on a future agenda planning

enforcement or you'll look at that on your work plan and you might want to

then have him here together with and to look into what we're doing but I think

as we all know there's work to be done here and it's not it's been a challenge

for a long period of time but we now have got somebody who's got that

experience elsewhere who's helping us to hopefully improve the situation. Thanks.

Councillor Tony Slater - 1:27:26

Oh, sorry, oh right. Just council Coleman just wanted to come in.

All I was going to say was, it's great that we've now got somebody on board that's looking at that full time.

It's just that I thought we'd done that a year ago when we had the review and came up with the core backlog of the 640 odd cases.

But no need to come back.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:27:53

It's a fair point you just made.

But no, my particular concern is that in the past

Councillor Patrick Coleman - 1:27:58

when the figures outstanding in enforcement were not quite

so high, as an ordinary member of the council,

not then on the planning committee a lot of the time,

it was incredibly valuable to have the monthly report.

It's for very good reasons, two years now

since members have received the monthly report.

I'm wondering whether if I dug out a couple of the old ones,

they might be of some use since some

of those will obviously be amongst the some of the ones that were outstanding

two years ago will be amongst among those that are still outstanding now not

too many I hope but yes the enforcement is so important whether it's car parking

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:28:36

or indeed planning thank you thank you and then Councillor Jenkins has got a

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:28:39

Councillor Tony Slater - 1:28:42

question yeah it's just funny I was speaking to an ex -enforcement officer

only this morning and in in the old days the enforcement officers were able to

speak to councillors to discuss what's happening in their patch on these

matters so it's good local knowledge but when we've asked previously on this

matter there's confidentiality and all that stuff in the way now I don't know

if that's two different arguments or whether we could speak to officers as and when we've

gone through the backlog and they can talk to us about cases on our patch because we're

the local experts.

Councillor Mike Evemy - 1:29:27

I certainly know that I talk to planning officers about enforcement cases in my ward that I'm

very aware of because they've come through me as the ward councillor so certainly that

happens. I think we need to essentially let the officers come back with the

recommendations on how they would see to improve the process. Some of that may be

about the communications that you and Patrick are talking about Tony. I think

that was certainly when I was talking about this previously at this committee

I said communications is a big part of this and I think we all appreciate the

planning enforcement in the process. There's a legalistic element of it and

it's all quite and there's a lot of hurdles that have to be jumped through

but actually if we can share as much information with members as is able I

think it would be helpful but yeah certainly though that would be part of

our thinking when we're having those discussions with officers as well.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:30:24

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 1:30:27

Sir Jenkins. Thank you chair. Actually you thank you Councillor Slater the point

you've just brought up is kind of illustrative.

If my memory is correct, then at the end of 2023,

a contractor was brought in for initially a six month period

and I think his name was Dan.

And the thing that he mainly did was get rid of

loads of cases.

So you had a peak load of closing cases by just saying,

this is an old one gone, this is an old one gone,

This is an old one gone.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Loads of them were delivered and dealt with in that way.

And he stayed on a bit, and then he left.

And then we didn't have anybody, and hey, presto.

So the point about that, the reason I'm bringing that up,

is that's just anecdotal.

But it's very useful if these graphs

have got some annotation to say what

was going on at that point.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:31:31

I had some of these questions on the strategy risk register. This is highly unlikely but

still civil contingency. As we've observed in Dover and Portsmouth, some people are resorting

to actively demonstrating their views. Has the council considered what actions it might

take should there be a disturbance over asylum seekers being put in an HMO or equivalent

in the district.

That was the first.

So in terms of the

strategic risk register

I'd probably start with

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 1:32:03

reminding members of Oviur and Scrutiny

that I mean

this is included as an annex for completeness

but the responsibility

for risk remains with the

audit and governance committee with cabinet

involved as well.

So in terms of the

civil contingencies we've

scored that because I think we felt there was a hangover action from the annual governance

statement from last year that audit and governance considered that is signed off by the leader

and the chief executive around our preparedness. That was largely around business continuity

planning for services that we're responsible for. Should there be an issue of the type

you're describing, there would be a multi -agency response.

So we have already, as part of our involvement with the local resilience forum, a structure

in place that would allow us to be involved, but that would be jointly done with all other

parts of the public sector in the Gloucestershire area or within the district.

So if there was a significant event and there were protests in Gloucester earlier in the

year that they were prepared for, that they did have what was called a SAG, a Strategic

Advisory Group, so more the tactical on the ground response.

So if there were indications there were going to be disturbances or unrest and there was

planning for the CND demonstration at RAF Fairford, we are involved as part of a multi -agency

response.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:33:45

It is partly so that you are in a position that you can reassure residents who may be

concerned about that. I was also going to add on the resilience democracy that I very

much hope that all members of this committee as well as other members of the Council will

agree to extending their term of office until April 2028.

But having just seen the government's LGR plans,

that has been thrown into disarray

with the announcement from Angela Rayner,

Secretary of State for Housing Communities

and local government this afternoon.

But I'm bringing it up.

It is actually now.

It has changed a lot of things at 3 o 'clock this afternoon

when that announcement was made.

I'm sure it's we don't know enough now I'm not expecting an answer now but

obviously it is changing it has an impact far beyond our effects of

members as well as all the officers and everybody else in this council thank you

Councillor Mike Evemy - 1:34:44

to respond as the leader of the council to that yeah and absolutely it says I'm

not just mostly the those of us who are current councillors who were thinking we

have another 11 months added on. We won't, it will either carry on and go to

the polls next year or not and choose to retire at that point. But more seriously

as well, you know, obviously the implications for particularly our staff

who obviously have been working massively on this, for people who are in

roles which they are dedicated to LGR where and I totally accept that the

government announcements is unexpected and there's cause uncertainty and I know

the chief executive and myself I haven't had a briefing yet from MHCLG we are

expecting potentially to be invited to one tomorrow but that hasn't happened

yet, well it hadn't by the time I came into this meeting, to give more

information because I totally accept that you know the uncertainty that the

announcement this afternoon has provided or has produced I should say and that is

for staff and members and for service users as well who yeah potentially were

thinking that you know there'll be a new council providing the service from April

28 and it now looks like there won't be.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:36:13

Does anybody else have any questions or comments? Yes, Councillor Jenkins is there.

And then whether there's any recommendations. All I was going to say on

the recommendations is that I'm particularly happy to approve the installation of pool

covers at the port and on the water and tripping camp and swimming pool so thank

you for that. But that was a Councillor Jenkins.

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 1:36:34

Chair I was only going to say I proposed that we should put a motion in relation

to this two cabinets so the cabinet considers it to say that regarding the disruptive and costly

effect of this and would this be a good time to raise it or would you prefer later?

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:36:54

I don't feel it will probably be a motion it will be a recommendation but

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:37:03

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 1:37:08

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 1:37:13

It's just an informal thing. It's not a serious thing in a way, but we're asking

Cabinet to take a look at the fact this will cost us money to deal with it. It has cost

us money to deal with it. It will be disruptive to many officers and confusing and we still

have uncertainty and therefore it's appropriate for this council to write and say something

along those lines. Surely.

Councillor Coleman.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:37:43

Councillor Patrick Coleman - 1:37:46

It seems to be a little bit, yes, the immediate thought is that where there's been large

acceptance of the of the planned reorganisation such as in Gloucestershire

there's no reason for delay. The factors that affect the legal challenges

obviously I don't know the details I know there are legal challenges and of

course have been in the past don't apply in our County why can't we have a more

measured response than one size fits all because you are absolutely right I'm

being very selfish trying to consider my own future but there's so many officers

who work for years, who deserve their future status in either the new

organisation or in retirement or in some other career and their plans are

suddenly up in the air. But I also wanted to remind colleagues that strangely

nothing is when a Labour government was in power that Wiltshire became a unitary

with no shadow period at all as a continuing authority just as Gloucestershire

will be a continuing authority for districts and a county, no shadow

elections none of this stuff straight in districts finish one day and unitary

started the next. They haven't done too badly in Wiltshire. A bit late picking up

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:38:57

Councillor Mike Evemy - 1:38:59

Yubico but apart from that. Mike did you want to make any comments? I'm happy you

know obviously it's only today's news and obviously one of the things we will

be wanting to understand I'm sure on a Gloucestershire wide basis is how much

we've spent so far and I know it's impossible to really work out how much

office time we've spent unless it's dedicated officers that we obviously had

to get additional officers into backfill or we've got like the officers who are

just working on the programme but yeah essentially I think we will be wanting

to make that point as I said Angela Rayner sort of slightly dodged it when

she was asked that by a member of Parliament earlier this afternoon in my

view. Don't anticipate that the government will be providing us with any

money but it's never a show it's it's always worth asking and it's always

worth knowing how much actually the work has cost us and you know at the moment

it's not clear whether you know there is a postponement for a matter of months

will almost certainly looks like the elections next year will not be for

unitary council so but they could be for the following year so we could be

looking at a 12 -month delay and the implications of that but it is uncertain

but I'm and obviously we'll reflect on what I hear when I if we do have a

briefing from ministers or civil servants in MHCLG and then I can say

something more when I do my announcements at the meeting on Thursday

on the cabinet meeting. Thank you. If you're comfortable with that Councillor

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:40:40

Jenkinson. I think Simon Harper has got some notes from the meeting that he's

going to run through which could form the process of... Thanks chair. So I've got a few

Simon Harper, Officer - 1:40:55

points that I think are the sort of the ones that require some further action.

The first one was around parking and so you get that by location and then the

second one was around land charges and the committed serious concern around

that and I wish to know what the actions will be to improve that. A third one

around community infrastructure levy and ensuring that there's an adequate

resource and adequate arrangements for the distribution of those funds. A fourth

one around the report itself in terms of what's the additional data that could be

made available to allow better understanding of the performance. David

said there may be some additional data points that he'd look at. And then the

fifth one and final one was around LGR local government reorganisation and for

committee to express its serious concern at the disruption in cost and to

recommend to the cabinet those views made down to the government.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:42:10

Thank you for that Simon. Does anybody else have any other things

that they would like to add to that or to any other observations or any other

Councillor Tony Slater - 1:42:25

officers want to come in know you asked early on about the report from

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:42:35

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:42:37

enforcement to be provided quarterly with with this so for those

recommendations could I have a proposer and seconder please. Could we now all

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:42:52

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:42:59

vote on that? Thank you very much. Now we go on to the asset management strategy

11 Asset Management Strategy Update

update please. Alan you're going to be coming or who's... Thank you very much Gemma

Thank you for your contributions.

Quarter -an -hour to six o 'clock.

Do we tackle the next item?

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:43:22

Well, we've lost some people already.

We could be due a break in quarter -an -hour.

Are people happy to carry on as we are?

I'm hoping this item won't take too long,

but would you like to have the break earlier,

since this is in between the two topics,

or would you just like to keep cracking on?

What is everybody's feeling?

We're going to keep cracking on.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:43:57

So there we are.

Thank you very much.

I'm sure it will be appreciated by all the officers.

So Patrick you're going to be introducing this or Alan or combination

Councillor Patrick Coleman - 1:44:16

anyway we look forward to hearing from you. Thank you chair yeah it's clearly

extremely important that the council knows what it owns that's property and

where it owns it and why it owns it.

So one of the benefits of this report is that the reason

for which the property is been acquired

or continues to be owned is to a large extent,

at least in broad categories explained.

Furthermore, we distinguish between investment properties,

particularly those in Cirencester,

which are very important in many cases,

but not forgetting the ones in Morton in Marsh

or Morton in the Water,

completely different from the ones that we've discussed in the past at your

committee which are held out of district and which there is an update so I think

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 1:45:15

at this point that's all right Cheryl Oscar and hope to to take over thank you

Councillor Coleman so the report provides a schedule and we've presented

the assets in categories to hopefully aid a discussion and you know up to

today's announcement our strategic approach have been to use the asset

management strategy adopted by council in 2024 as our kind of guide rails and

we've been using that strategy document to guide how we're strategically

managing our assets going forward. And obviously with the emergence of LGR, we've been conscious

of being alert to the fact that anything we plan to do with our assets ultimately could

affect the unitary authority. So we have been mindful of that and again up to lunchtime

today there is or was a property and assets programme board stood up looking at

how the property and assets were going to be brought together as part of LGR

and as I put in the report which was obviously prepared before today there's

been an emerging voluntary framework that the councillors have been

discussing in terms of making sure that and David made reference to this earlier

that no individual council is off sort of selling the family silver so hence

the the pre section 24 protocol that's been being developed obviously all that

is potentially about to change so so our strategic position has been follow

through on the adopted strategy and then progressively become mindful of the

impact of LGR and making sure that we're not making any decisions that could

potentially disrupt the future unitary. So apologies if the report didn't

necessarily give the level of information you might have been

expecting. I was trying to kind of second -guess what you might be

interested in but I'm more than happy to kind of walk through the categories and

have a discussion about the kind of information you might want to seek or

Officer - 1:47:59

in relation to those categories. Thank you.

Councillor Waring. Thank you chair. You're anticipating a question

because I mean it's interesting to read the list but instantly I was thinking okay

Councillor Jon Wareing - 1:48:14

what's the market value what revenue do we get what's the book value what's the

likely capital expenditure on these things on and on and on it's in

isolation it was just it's a little limited in use other than well there's

all the stuff so I really think it's kind of from from a utility perspective

it's like a first draught I think for scrutiny purposes we probably need to

have all those categories which will produce a much richer and more complex

that document to read but at least then it would allow us to talk about it.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:48:54

Thank you and I think Councillor Jenkinson you did submit some

questions on that very thing ahead of the meeting I'm not sure have you got

them. Democratic Services certainly have them. I do have the questions. You've got the questions.

Anyway, maybe they won't pass you. Yes, Alan, would you like to come back? First of all,

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 1:49:20

Councillor Jenkinson was going to amplify those same thoughts. Well, yes, I'm very much

in agreement with you, John. And the point is that this is a potentially very important

set of assets that are worth something.

We own some of them and should.

And we perhaps own something some historically.

There's the interesting case of the church that decided to dump some land on the town

council, Cirencester, then Cirencester instantly dumped it on us and we still own it.

And should we be owning it?

What are we doing with it?

There's that kind of oddity.

There's a ransom strip, but I'd really like to know what that is because when I contacted

of compliance recently, they didn't know what a compliance

a ransom strip was.

And we have a property that's worth quite a lot of money

that's sitting there, and I'm not quite sure why we own it.

And this property that's clearly quite like verges

that maybe we should be managing under some ecological regime,

and maybe we do, maybe we don't.

So I wrote with a set of questions with a view

to saying, I suspect you know a lot more than is

on this document.

And it would be very helpful to us to have that.

But I also thought my key question was what,

that this was a really valuable thing

that the Cabinet needs to know.

Here's what we own.

Here's how they break down into certain kinds of categories.

And really you want it multidimensional.

So there's here's how they divide on money.

Here's how they divide on the kind of usefulness

that they have, they provide important services.

So, for example, we own a car park that's worth a certain

amount of money and it generates a certain amount of money,

but it's also a valuable service of a certain kind and it

delivers that service or not, and so forth.

I can reference the fact that, and there's at least one car

park, the one in Moreton, that routinely has a whole lot of

electric bays that are not being used, but nobody parks there because their only electric

cars are allowed, but electric cars don't park there either because they don't seem

to be working. And that's been going on for, I don't know, two years. So these are things

that need strategic management by cabinet members. So my point was that this is a really

useful start point, and I suspect you have a lot more

information, and I think it would be really helpful for

Cabinet, and thereby scrutiny, to have more insight into

these, and a clear strategy.

Because at the moment, there's, you know, the report

says, quite rightly, it's just a list, therefore it has

no legal implications, and it has no financial implications,

and no risk assessment, and no equalities impact, and so

on, because it's not recommending anything.

but perhaps it should have all of those.

So I'd really appreciate what you think might be possible

or not possible and so on on this.

Thank you.

Well, thank you, Angus.

Councillor Patrick Coleman - 1:52:24

And perhaps I was a bit too brief in my introduction.

I realised I should have also said

that what was to have been 1st of April 28

and now maybe a later date,

one thing is for certain that this will not be the council

or organisation that owns this land.

and part of the purpose of having a register like this, apart from

transparency, is the value it may provide to our parish and town council colleagues.

Again, remembering that the organisation of this type has been going on for 30

years, we are the last phase in Great Britain, Wales and Scotland have managed

to live with it. I've never been aware of anyone saying, oh I wish I had a third

tier of government called district councils back. So ironically, the

longer it's gone on the slower it becomes as we've learned today instead of

being quicker but at least the National Association of Local Councils has had a

lot of experience in advising and encouraging town and parish councils in

some case to be actually set up such as in Salisbury, in Sutton and Colfield to take on

that important lower tier role and in many cases to identify assets which they

would like to acquire from the outgoing district and county councils and having

said that much I'm not meaning to say that much but it does remind me that my

late first wife who was leader of North Watcher District Council successfully

sold the town the town hall in Chippenham to Chippenham town council for

a peppercorn I think or something like it and then pulled the same trick in

Marmsbury and I don't think either of those premises came without some

substantial repair needs which as uncapped councils and with other

enterprise of those two town councils were able to achieve and those town halls

have been greatly improved so I'm a positive person about the local government

organisation and the property stuff has this benefit it's either there or it

isn't what condition it's in Prince's ugly house it's mine a trip up there is

a secondary issue and making certainly goes for proper purposes processes I'm

sure there's lots of guidance about how much anybody pays for anything is

another point but yes it should all be neater and tidier arguably we've now got

an extra year to sort it out so be no excuse if it isn't tidy when the new

council does eventually come arrives.

Officer - 1:54:55

Yeah so to respond to your point of course we have got information on values

and we've got information on income and obviously a lot of that is in the

Council's financial statements in any event. So again I'll apologise again if I

misjudged what the purpose of today's meeting was. So more than happy to pull

together further information and obviously I might have a bit more time on my

hands now that I might not be going to any LGR meetings for the next few weeks

because I did have to shave up for tomorrow afternoon so I'm not sure

they're gonna happen anymore. So you know I'm more than happy to go away and

provide more substantial information, asset by asset, capital values, incomes and what

the strategy is. So as I said, we have been working to the adopted asset management strategy

and we have been increasingly mindful of working with the LGR protocols. I made the assumption

that a lot of these reviews had happened before the asset management strategy was adopted

in 2024 and things haven't changed that much since then. But, yeah, more than happy to

go away and produce some more detailed information.

David Stanley, please.

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 1:56:15

Thank you, Chair. If I can give some context to the work that Harry and Ellen have been

doing since July of last year. Much of the focus on the assets has been about ensuring

we've got good compliance in place and that's been the focus of that team. So there has

been some work as part of LGR putting together the list of assets that each council holds,

how it's used, what income that generates. Now I think given the announcement today there's

a need to review I suppose what we've got, look at that timescale and as the leader indicated

that he'll probably find out more between now and Thursday and make some announcements

in cabinet, but I've got in front of me the fixed asset register that we use to pull together

the annual statement of accounts. Harry inputs into that in terms of the valuations, and

we know particularly the car parks generate a lot of income, so we classify for the statement

of accounts purposes, are they operational assets, are they surplus land, so on and so

forth. There is quite a list and I've looked back at May 2024's cabinet which is when the

asset management strategy was put forward. That set out what the asset management strategy

was intended to do and it is through that that we get our instructions so to speak from

cabinet. So we have been looking at assets that could be disposed of, be that public

conveniences, in particular either the asset and the service, or in particular as referenced

in the quarter one corporate performance report, the disposal of an out of district property.

All of this takes officer time and input, but I think what was really important is Alan

and the team responding to the internal audit report that highlighted some significant weaknesses

is in the control environment around compliance,

and getting compliance right was the focus.

So I think there has been less time spent

pulling some of this information together for members generally,

more time spent on getting compliance right,

and I would support that.

And I suppose part of my reason for saying that to members

is not to think that Alan and the team have been sat around

with a spreadsheet and looking at it and doing not a lot.

their focus has been elsewhere.

But certainly we can provide some of that information.

The issue, and I think the question to pose

to Ovi and Scrutiny and Cabinet is,

and what is going to happen with that information?

Where's that going to go?

Because there is already a asset management strategy.

LGR is a pause, it's not a cancelation.

So some of this will still continue in terms of what we own,

what a new unitary or unitaries,

because that decision could be changed, may own,

and how we make those decisions around that.

But I totally understand that members have seen a list,

and it's sort of helpful, but only gets you some of the way

there.

But I think the context of where the team have been

was important for you to understand.

Yes, well, thank you, both of you.

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 1:59:30

I think the point is that two of us, at least,

have said we think it would be useful to have clearer

information.

The key thing is I'm aware of the amount of time.

By the way, I have a recommendation here I crossed

out, including in LGR since I don't know what the situation

is, so but I'm conscious that this would have been relevant

to LGR and presumably still would be at some point.

But I think what I'm talking about at any rate is to do with

systems management.

If you have a database with all of this is in a database with the appropriate

Records appropriate values on certain parameters, then you can cut it up multiple ways

SQL and you can have a simple interface that does that and it doesn't take time you can print it off

It's there and if you don't have it and you have to collect the data together each time you want to report it

Then it's a big load. So this goes to the question of

of operationalizing our systems more effectively.

And that's why, for me, it's particularly relevant

to look at it both that point of view and specifics.

As I say, it's my own curiosity,

but I'd like to know what we own as a ransom strip.

I'm not at all sure whether it's gonna be a useful use

of our time to actually answer that question,

but there's interesting things in here

for some cabinet member to look at.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:01:14

Were there any other comments from anybody else?

Angus mentioned that he had a recommendation.

I'm not sure what that might be.

I did have before he was the thing, I was just wanting to have,

I understand that we have the, you know, we've got the three

out of district investment properties.

and I understand there has been some movement and change on that.

I know that there is always levels of confidentiality around it,

but is there any further information or update we can make?

David Sandley will come back. Thank you.

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 2:01:50

Some of that detail was set out in the corporate performance report,

so the assets team have been working with the preferred bidder

and progressing the disposal of one particular property,

the property in Hereford.

So within the corporate performance report,

there's a recommendation that cabinet will be asked

to consider on Thursday to dedicate authority

to a label that transaction to be continued

because ultimately within the constitution,

there's a set of criteria that says if the value

of a disposal is above this, but below that,

it requires a cabinet member decision.

So I think we're close to achieving a disposal of that property.

There is active marketing being undertaken on the two other out of area properties.

But beyond that, I think the corporate performance report indicates that the value achieved is above the net book value that was indicated in the earlier report this year and below the 1 million threshold.

so it gives the members an indication that it's not going to be massively above the threshold,

but I wanted to make sure members understood that we weren't selling things for vastly

inflated figures and we were circumnavigating the constitution.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:03:14

Thank you for that and I hope it proceeds well. I'm sure all the committee will support that,

that the cabinet makes that decision. Was there anything else? I mean I'm going to let

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 2:03:29

Councillor Jenkinson come in. Councillor Jenkinson. Well my recommendation

is that we should be recommending cabinet to consider that these assets

should be thoughtfully classified in a database to enable intelligent decisions

by Cabinet and officers for the future.

So that would include supporting LGR in due course.

By thoughtfully classified, I'm leaving it to other officers

and so on who are the experts and the Cabinet members

to specify what constitutes the thoughtful classification

that would be most useful to us.

But I mean I could I mean I thought of various categories

But rather than me trying to tell you what the answer is we better if you tell us what the answer is

in conjunction with relevant cabinet members and

That if it was in a systems database

Then it would enable these assets to be

reported to be maintained and

reported

at the press of a button more or less with

appropriate search engine

I can read it more precisely because I explained my recommendation then for everybody.

Councillor Patrick Coleman - 2:04:57

Do you have a problem with that?

Officer - 2:05:02

I don't have a problem with the principle.

I think the comment I would make about one consolidated database that has all this information at the press of a button,

We're not there and in fact most of the councils in Gloucestershire are not there.

And I know LGR is a separate topic but in the LGR discussions we've had in the Property and Assets Programme Board,

we've accepted that in the timescale to LGR there is no time for everybody to buy a new system or to everybody to consolidate all the data onto one system.

So the focus was to keep everyone was to stick with their existing systems and

the first priority was to make sure we could achieve a safe and legal transfer

on investing day. Safe and legal in terms of leases, contracts, safe and legal in

terms of compliance records. So the information we've talked about here we

have, we have income data, we have valuation data, we haven't got all that

in one database that you can cut and slice and I suspect that will be more

expensive than we might think and more time -consuming than we might think. But

in terms of some useful data that members can look at and ask questions

about of course we've got some information. So the only aspect of that

Your statement that I'm slightly concerned about is the concept

of an all -singing, all -dancing database that you can cut

and slice any way you like.

That would take quite a lot of time and resource to achieve.

Let me be clear.

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 2:06:48

I'm asking, I'm proposing that you should think about

what would be useful.

I took it for granted that you didn't have this.

If you did have this, I took it for granted we would have seen

it and I take it for granted that the absence of this is a really costly

inefficient aspect to the council and it's one of our whole raft and it's just

part of lots of councils have this problem as you say it's across the whole

of Gloucestershire it's not unique to us but this is the sort of thing that

businesses for a long time said well that's just unacceptable that you can't

manage a business efficiently like that.

Even an Excel spreadsheet can be turned into a database

of the type that I talked about.

So I'm suggesting that certainly, I crossed out LGR

here, but in conjunction with our best understanding, noted

David, I've got you on the list, that in conjunction with

whatever turns out to be the LGR situation, consideration

should be made and we shouldn't try and invent it six times or seven times across the county.

But, and I didn't give any time, deadline or timeline, but what I am saying is that

this isn't the way that we should be managing things in the future. Therefore, we should

have a plan to move to a better way of managing things. For the good of our residents, for

the good of officers' time and efficiency, it must be very boring to have to collect

they do together again and again each time some sassy councillor asks for information

that they think might be useful to them.

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 2:08:35

Thank you, Chair. Just in terms of what information we do hold, so we have as part of the financial

statements the fixed asset register. So that will contain a list of assets classified based

on how we do the accounts between other land and buildings and the subclasses on that,

offices, cultural buildings, car parks for example. Other land, surplus lands, land that

is not operational and not being used as class as surplus land and that may or may not be

treated in a particular way depending whether it's actively marketed at the time we do the

accounts and investment properties. There are also going to be, there's more than one

valuation and that valuation isn't a real -time valuation. So we undertake an accountancy

valuation towards the end of each financial year. The way in which we do that has changed

this year so we now no longer need to do valuations in a particular way. We can use an index to

increase those or decrease those valuations. There will also be a market valuation, there

be an insurance rebuild valuation. The last of those two won't be on the fixed asset register.

The fixed asset register also doesn't contain information on the income or cost of holding

those assets. That's in the financial system. ABW, we don't have the fixed asset register

and the fixed asset register module of ABW is not very good and we have no intention

of spending any time over the next year or two

putting that in only for those assets

to be moved somewhere else.

So there is, and I did this as part of the LGR work,

taking the publicly available list of assets.

And if I take one of those that was on the report from 2024,

line number two is Sun Ground evening GL8 8GY,

GY, freehold land, description, amenity land.

It is on the fixed asset register with a net book value

of around about 200 ,000 pounds.

Now, it doesn't tell me, other than that, what it's currently

being used for, whether there's a particular cost

associated with that.

So there is quite a bit of work involved providing that

information because it is in disparate places.

So...

Yeah, about that.

Now, if I looked at the most valuable assets the council's got, it's the leisure centre

in terms of net book value and the car parks. That we have lots of information on. We know

what the contract value is of the leisure centre. We know what we pay freedom. We know

what freedom's income and expenditure is. We know what happens with the car parks. It's

some of those smaller assets that I think members are more interested in that we might

take longer to pull together and it won't be a dynamic list. I don't think

that is something that we would be looking to update on a regular basis but

there is probably a whizzy way we can use AI or other tools to start matching

and this is what I did with LDR fixed asset register information out the

financial system and information from the FAR so there's a more comprehensive

list but it still doesn't address the issue so what what is the council going

to do as a result of having that information.

I think that's the next step that I think the committee would want to consider.

So knowing that the scrap of land in evening is this big and it's got a net book value of X

and it's listed as surplus land, what is the longer term plan?

Does that plan change if members have that information?

I was just going to come in, I think Stephanie wants to come back too, but as I also understand

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:12:26

it that some of these things, well we've touched on the public conveniences, but other land

assets are also going to be offered to parish councils or maybe to housing associations

because in some cases it makes more sense perhaps for them to own them.

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 2:12:45

I think less offered but we have invited other organisations to come forward with proposals

for the council to consider and if it's in the council's interests and in the interest

of the wider communities then we would consider that and that's something we did with North

Leech and Eastington town council in terms of the public conveniences so we are open

to that but we're not taking a list to other organisations saying what would you like please

take it off our hands. There is a process that I think the leader has outlined at

parish town council forums. Come and speak to us if there is something you're

interested in and put a proposal to us.

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 2:13:24

Yes, well thank you very much for that further explanation and how you do have

lots of information but it's also divided around and so forth and I think

we're probably unsurprised by both the fact that you have lots of information and that it's divided around and so on but

If I take a random example the verges at the beaches estate in siren sister

I'm I'm curious which cabinet member is responsible for that

Who is deciding the policy for how we will manage those verges in that particular one?

and is it being managed, for example, for ecological purposes,

since we have an ecological crisis, or for active travel purposes, or what?

How are those being dealt with?

And is that, in fact, a candidate that ought to be offered,

and maybe somewhere in your system you already have a decision,

it should be offered back to the parish council,

town council in the case of Cirencester.

Somebody should be responsible for making decisions about that

and all of the others.

And that would be some kind of combination between an officer

and a cabinet member, or more than one officer,

as I can see, there's more than one digital factor.

And that's why I'm saying, just taking a somewhat random

example, if we want to take hold of these things,

and in the case of verges, that might mean grasping the nettle,

then we should have the means of doing that.

and I'd like to risk my case at this point rather than pushing it further.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:15:12

Does anybody want to come back on that? No. I don't know Simon, have you got any

thought about a recommendation that might come out of what

Councillor Jenkinson was suggesting? And Councillor Waring?

I'm still wearing.

Simon Harper, Officer - 2:15:28

Yeah, what I picked up is members wanting more information to sort of aid their understanding of what these assets are,

sort of richer information, capital value, income, future strategy, all that sort of thing.

The things that David referred to and perhaps that, as David said, that can be pulled together with AI

and circulated amongst members.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:16:03

David, did you want to comment further? Sorry, just David.

No, I was watching the Vice Chair in terms of...

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 2:16:11

No, I don't think that's what I'm asking for.

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 2:16:12

It's not that I've seen this information.

What I'm saying is it doesn't provide a well -structured way

for the council to manage it.

My assumption is that on a regular basis it's managed

by officers and cabinet.

It's officers and cabinet who need the system.

We might from time to time look at it in scrutiny and say,

how are you doing?

And it would be helpful then to have it well prepared.

But what I'm asking for is that this system,

that we have a more system effective process

of managing these assets.

And in thinking about these assets, it's also part of a whole series that we're in 2026

and if we do not get smarter in how we manage the Council, we'll always be running to catch up.

Simon Harper, Officer - 2:17:12

Well, I sort of picked up as what Alan said around I don't think it's probably viable to have one

system at the present time, is it, with LGR and...

It's certainly viable to make that the plan.

And it's certainly viable...

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 2:17:27

Well, it's not just a vague ambition, it's to say, we need this, okay, what's the best

path to get to it?

And that's...

How can...

You can't manage a council with all of these different assets and have to pull together

from lots of different places the information to know what's going on or to rely on some

officer who knows all about it and then leaves. It's just not a viable way of running a complex

thing like a council. You can't.

Officer - 2:18:01

Okay, so I don't want to go over old ground, but up to lunchtime today, we had an asset

management strategy we still have. We have some assets that we own, we still

have and in less than two years time they were going to be transferred to

another authority. So the focus has been on preparing for that. Carry on doing the

day -to -day, making sure we're on top of statutory compliance etc. But in terms of

strategic asset management, disposals, acquisitions, the focus has been on

preparation for LGR safe and legal transfer. So the provision of more

information than was in the first report is obviously possible. An all singing, all

dancing system with all of it on there all coordinated is not I would say

feasible in any sensible timescale. And I think we've also got to consider

materiality. So we've just had a conversation about verges. We've got a

hundred node assets. Some of them are generating strong income streams. Some of

them got strong capital values. If we really want a plan for every grass

verge we own, we are going to soak up a hell of a lot of office time preparing

information and having conversations about grass verges. So I accept what

you're saying about we'd have all this in in an ideal world but we are where we

are today we still don't know where we are in terms of LGR and what what might

be happening in the next 18 months so I do think we've got to you know use the

operators law and focus on the important bits and the higher value bits rather

and try and bite off the whole elephant.

Councillor Patrick Coleman - 2:20:03

I just had a talk, Ms May, thank you for the relaxed

and creative way you are running the meeting.

It would be really handy for me personally,

and possibly for other members,

if the database could tell us which ward each of the items is in.

It might be possible, it might not,

because bandwidth has changed,

that hasn't changed for a while.

Just because if each local member was able to know that if they wanted to, they could have a list of district council assets

with suitable, if there is a need to have certain, what's the word, reserve matters, but at least to say in your ward

the district council does own that piece of land and then the local council can probably work out that a lot of the rest of it is bone of a cancer

in my the land nobody owns and you have to pay the government to get hold of or

something because I've got a lot of that in my ward but it just struck me you've

then got local knowledge which will be able to if it wants to local member

feedback and say well yeah we have call this but actually this bits now got such

and such happened to it you might not notice and some of this is footpaths for

instance I mean nobody wants to own a footpath if you've got any sense

because you clean it and weed it and you would have stopped things happening in

it. I'd trip over a load of canisters in Watford, large -scale canisters that you

inhale stuff through when I'm visiting one of my daughters but I just thought

to myself I don't don't want my council owning any put past like that. So it's

just a general thought that that might engage local members who to offer

of suggestions, comments, advice.

Might be corrections, but I doubt it.

Maybe it's a whether it's possible to do that,

the way all the IT works, I don't know.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:21:57

Councillor Jenkins is just coming with one last point,

and then I think we'll wind up this topic.

Thank you, Chair.

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 2:22:05

I'm aware that you came from the beginning of this meeting,

and you sat all the way through nearly two hours of conversation

while we looked at some other things.

So I'm glad to give you the value of having waited here

by at least asking you some questions.

And I'm sorry if they appear to be irritating or difficult.

I'm not trying to load anybody with a problem.

I'm trying to take away a problem.

And my recommendation was deliberately couched in a general way with no deadlines.

I certainly did not use the phrase all singing and all dancing at any point in what I said.

I simply said, wouldn't it be a good idea to have a thoughtful classification?

Somebody thinks about how could we usefully classify all of these to be useful

to the offices of different kinds of offices, to the cabinet, different members of cabinet,

and in due course to LGR so that when it passes across, they remember that there was a house

that was bought around about in 1999 that had a value at that point, which it will be

in the asset register, of 305 ,000 or something, which is probably worth 900 ,000 or something

today. And it's used for this or that and we do whatever, but there's also some grass

verges and they're just a pain in the neck because they cost us money. Or they're really

useful because they do this for us. I don't know. And we do not need an all singing, all

that draw together knowledge that make use, as we've heard,

of members perhaps and different parties could help.

And I did not fix a timeline.

It needs to be sensibly worked in coordination with LGR

if it happens or doesn't happen, as the case may be.

I am just saying that as a council,

we ought to be setting, this is an example for me

of where we ought to be going to manage our assets and our services in the future.

And we should do something and plan to do it.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:24:43

Well, I understand the strength of your feeling.

I do understand your concerns.

I think whether we have LGR or not, we are working to capacity and time constraints

to do these things, which would be desirable in a normal way.

But I'd like to hear the views of the other members of the committee.

and see what you feel.

Councillor Waring.

Councillor Jon Wareing - 2:25:06

So I think my initial response was an expectation

that's forged perhaps in different environments

and I'm reminded once again as when we had conversations

about, I think it was the planning enforcement

and the lack of IT and supporting officers,

how the District Council, for whatever reason

but clearly has not put in place IT infrastructure that many businesses take for granted and

that seems to tie your hands behind your back.

Now I've heard the complexity of where this information is located and the detail, it's

kind of mind -boggling and I wouldn't want you to be trying to just produce this report

in the way that I imagined it might be because of the sheer hours consumption

that would be involved with it. But I do think that it's important that we have

some means of being able to look at the strategically significant assets of the

council such as the car parks and understand more about them particularly

when we're asked by our parish council, in my case our parish councils, what are the

chances of us getting hold of this? And at the moment I just say I've no idea because

I'm just not informed about it. So something would be great if it's high level. That's

my thought on it.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:26:44

Does anybody else have some views to share on this?

Councillor Michael Vann - 2:26:49

Just one word, prioritise.

You want another word or two?

There's a whole lot of stuff here and you've done a fantastic job, really have.

but I think if we were able to prioritise some which have a significant

impact on this council that would be helpful.

Councillor Len Wilkins - 2:27:18

There's also a lot of expectations that's going to be sadly smashed.

Borton on the Water Council think you're going to give them the Riginton Road car park

that brings in 800 pounds in a year. I don't think you're going to do that.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:27:38

Right, so Simon is there any way that you're going to help me sum this one up?

Simon Harper, Officer - 2:27:46

Picking up on what John's just said, I think if officers go away and pull together something

that identifies those strategically important assets and that information is presented in

such a way that you can understand what that asset is and what it's been used

for. I think that's what you're you're seeking aren't you and and we're kind of

prioritising the ones that as you say that the strategically important ones

rather than the verges and the tiny parcels of land. I think that's broadly

what you're saying isn't it? So you're asking officers to go away and do that.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:28:33

Councillor Tony Slater - 2:28:35

I think a well -built Excel spreadsheet will give you all that, just a flag, is it strategically

important?

Yes, just filtered by the yeses.

If we can have it by ward as well, as was mentioned earlier, that would be really useful

because then we can help you understand which is a bit of scrap land at 45 degrees and which

is something of value.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:29:01

I think it's really the capital value of whatever asset it might be and the income which is

derived off it.

Those are the most important ones and it would be useful to see figures on that.

Just one final point.

Councillor Jon Wareing - 2:29:18

One of the challenges certainly, in Boulton we have a very vocal resident who is minded

to point out that the council may have a conflict of interest when it comes to a high revenue

generating asset that is dependent on tourism and decisions that may be being made.

I'm trying to pick my words very carefully because the way this has been presented has

been pretty ugly.

But at some point this may well be something that people want to challenge.

Because if the Rington Road car parking in Boulton is a huge revenue generator and residents

are saying we are suffering over intensity of use, we can't use our village green, we

get obstructed, all the stuff you've heard many times before, if it's perceived that

the value of that asset in having visitors come to it is actually part of burdening the

community, then the stewardship of that community is being thrown into question.

So I think it is important that we have some granularity on this.

I think it's an uncomfortable area, but I just want to flag, I think this is where we may be heading.

We do have one.

Councillor Patrick Coleman - 2:31:00

Chair, just to say thank you for that reminder and I personally think it's maybe worse reviewing

whether or not the introduction of a two hour free period for local residents between 8am

and 10am to park in that car park should be discontinued but I'll look at the data.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:31:20

Simon Harper, Officer - 2:31:30

Thank you. I think we've got a proposal I can wait to vote on. I think around what I said in terms of looking at those strategic sites and prioritising those and

and the information will be presented to allow you to understand what they're used for.

And you've got that information that comes back from officers,

and that can be circulated amongst the committee,

could be circulated amongst the wider membership,

and that would include ward information as well.

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 2:32:10

We have 79 land assets.

Number one, how much are they worth collectively?

How many acres do they take up, bearing in mind

that those land assets can include verges

across our entire estate?

How many insects live in them?

How are we managing them for our ecology crisis policy or not,

or economic or amenity or child's play?

How are they being managed?

What are we doing with them?

So who decides what is a priority?

Because what is a priority on money might be a different priority to people in that estate.

And I would simply say I...

Okay, if you can answer those questions and if they are readily available,

then you can just tell anybody who genuinely needs to know the answers to those questions,

like a cabinet member, fine.

And if you can't, I don't think that's what we should

be planning for in the future.

I'm not going to answer for the officers,

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:33:23

but I think it is ecology reports are

wonderful and very useful.

But they are also time consuming and hugely capacity.

And the officers are intensive.

and I don't think we have that capacity to deal with that.

But as Simon read it out earlier,

are people happy on the committee

that we should proceed on that basis?

So we get more information.

We won't get it all.

It's not going to cover all the assets,

but it's going to principally,

it's the leisure centres, the car parks,

these other assets which really have got a value,

quite aside from the ones outside the actual district. Are you happy to proceed

on that basis? I'm sure Armin is very good at this. Simon will tidy it up a

little bit but to go forward to cabinet as a recommendation. It's probably a

request. It's a request, yes. A request that officers provide that information. It comes

back to you so it's a request which

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:34:33

right I could I have a proposal and council wearing a seconder like council

van and could we vote on that and one abstention yes I'm voting against it

because I don't think that's what we should be recommending okay okay all

All right, thank you.

Okay, so now we go on to the updates

from Gloucestershire County Council Scrutiny Committees.

12 Updates from Gloucestershire County Council Scrutiny Committees

And the first one from Angus,

who is on the Gloucestershire Economy,

Climate Change and Waste Scrutiny.

They keep changing these names,

that's a bit confusing, and I'm not,

but, and thank you everybody for your presence, thank you.

Thank you.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:35:26

No, it wasn't shared on these papers, but I think it was...

Oh, you have got...

No, that's a HOSC one.

I think it was shared before.

I think it was shared earlier because I think you provided it for the last meeting, which

was obviously not discussed at that meeting because that meeting was totally on the local

plan.

So I think it was mainly on the outcome,

and it was still a forest of Dean, and was that not it?

It was the one before.

Right.

So I asked officers to share it.

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 2:36:03

So if you haven't got it, then you

might have to postpone it again, because it hasn't

been circulated this time.

And unless you went back and looked at last month's.

But it wasn't circulated last time either,

because although it was provided for last month,

it wasn't dealt with last month, and therefore it wasn't in the papers because we were only looking at LGR last time.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:36:26

We'll cheque. We'll make absolutely sure.

We have, however, Dydis has provided the HOSC report, which again, I mean, she writes it so well,

and it's really interesting and useful and encouraging that what goes on in the local health services.

I know it's not always good news, but at least it is that

communication between the people, health providers,

and us, which is valuable in its way.

And often I find something in there which, when I'm talking

to a resident, is really useful and gives me better information

than I would normally have.

Does anybody have any particular comments?

Oh, Delis used to be on overview and description.

She could actually respond, but she's not here today.

Does anybody have any note on that?

Yes?

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 2:37:26

Yes, I'm not sure quite what can be done with it,

but I was particularly interested in the midwife situation.

So the question of whether it would all be consolidated in Gloucester

or whether it would be distributed.

And there's two points.

One is I would like to put back to Dyliss in some way,

for if it's relevant, if she can bring it.

We have a report, for example, in Morton that it can take 45

minutes to get to the other part of, other side of town.

One way, to pick up a patient and then 40 minutes to get back

in order to then make the journey from Morton to a hospital somewhere else.

In which case, if it's a critical situation, the person is dead.

That's one, and related to that, but loosely related,

we have a hospital in Morton, we have a hospital also in Syrinsester and elsewhere.

If midwives were able to be recruited across the county,

and if they could work at least some of the time locally,

meeting local mothers, then it would facilitate both the midwives

and it would facilitate the mothers.

I mean, in the past, it was common for mothers to go and visit people in their home.

But that's obviously not a regular practise today.

But the use, this is an example where we previously looked and

said it was as a motion, we want to try and protect local areas.

Can we not encourage this, which I think would help in

recruitment, they're trying to get people back in mid -life.

And if you were working, living in Moreton and you were told you

can work part -time and you can use the local hospital, or ditto

siren system or elsewhere, surely that would be helpful.

So that's something that reading the report seemed to me to be

a useful, the sort of thing that could be a useful

feedback from us.

Thank you.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:39:50

I think we can, we'll feed that back to Phyllis.

Both Angus and I are on the LGR scrutiny panel.

Boom.

Simon was going to fill up because he is also, of course,

the Democratic services role there, and was also going

to update us, but again, boom, we're not quite sure

where we are, but I think he might just give a little bit

of information on that.

As far as Angus and I are concerned,

we've attended one meeting.

It was a sort of set up meeting.

We did the terms of reference, and I'm very,

Angus very kindly proposed that I should be chair due course I was I was voted in

to be chair but we didn't take any other strategic thing we've got a meeting

coming up next week or that's what we thought but I'll let Simon update you

Simon Harper, Officer - 2:40:49

all on it. Thanks chair I've got a meeting it's still happening at the

it may be it may be cancelled depending on developments but we'd gone as far as

developing a work plan for the committee for the panel which is which you've which

you've seen chair so that will clearly need to be adjusted in the light of

current developments so we'd say when watch your space basically

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:41:33

If there's nothing anybody else has got to add or anything else, thank you all very much for your attendance this evening.

And actually obviously one of the reasons why it's only Lisa Spivey counts as Spivey couldn't be here was obviously suddenly she had to be at County Council because this is really throwing so much good work that's been done and efforts and everything else.

It's a big change

Even if it is only deferred or postponed a bit

It is still a huge change and completely unexpected a cancer wearing

This one this is more a conversational question really but given that we were all

Councillor Jon Wareing - 2:42:10

working on the

assumption that we would

participate as district council district councils for an extra year

Is there not a rationale that

the leader should be writing to the government and say well actually our intention is to

do just that because going through an election process for a new set of councillors potentially

who would only serve possibly one year maybe about a bit seems to be throwing even more

good money after bad.

There'd be legal challenges.

Councillor Tony Slater - 2:42:57

That's what happened in the first stage of LGR. It was deemed undemocratic because there weren't any elections. That was accepted.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:43:11

I think it's a really important issue and if you need to try

and get good committed people to stand for council,

whichever party they're representing

for such an uncertain period and things,

it is not just a good way of running government.

It really isn't.

So I'm hoping, I mean at the moment it looks

as though we would normally be,

they would be reinstating the elections next May.

They've made a statement they're going to do that,

Simon Harper, Officer - 2:43:42

so it seemed fairly firm.

They've said that there's going to be normal elections

as district -based next year.

Good night and thank you very much.

Sorry.

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 2:43:59

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Interactive webcast player

Overview and Scrutiny CommitteeMonday, 7th September 2026 at 4:00pm

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:00:00

1 Apologies

Julia Gibson, Officer - 0:00:51

2 Substitute Members

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:01:07

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 0:01:38

Councillor Michael Vann - 0:01:48

Councillor Tony Slater - 0:01:52

Councillor Jon Wareing - 0:01:56

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:01:59

3 Declarations of Interest

4 Minutes

5 Matters Arising from Minutes of the Previous Meeting

Julia Gibson, Officer - 0:03:43

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:03:54

Councillor Jon Wareing - 0:03:59

Councillor Jon Wareing - 0:04:29

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:05:29

6 Chair's Announcements

Councillor Len Wilkins - 0:07:22

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:07:32

7 Public Questions

8 Member Questions

9 Report back on recommendations

10 Council Performance report Q1 2026-2027

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:10:55

Councillor Mike Evemy - 0:11:03

Councillor Patrick Coleman - 0:13:20

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:14:48

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 0:14:53

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:22:44

Councillor Jon Wareing - 0:23:13

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 0:23:46

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:26:18

Councillor Len Wilkins - 0:26:21

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 0:26:47

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:28:24

Councillor Tony Slater - 0:28:28

Councillor Mike Evemy - 0:30:05

Councillor Mike Evemy - 0:32:13

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 0:32:57

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:36:24

Councillor Jon Wareing - 0:36:27

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 0:36:33

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:36:43

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 0:36:55

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 0:38:47

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 0:41:42

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 0:41:50

Councillor Mike Evemy - 0:42:39

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 0:44:12

Councillor Mike Evemy - 0:44:20

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 0:44:36

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 0:45:41

Councillor Angus Jenkinson - 0:47:15

Councillor Mike Evemy - 0:47:32

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 0:49:10

Councillor Mike Evemy - 0:49:56

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:50:21

Councillor Jon Wareing - 0:50:37

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:51:04

Councillor Mike Evemy - 0:51:26

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:53:03

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 0:53:28

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:54:28

Councillor Mike Evemy - 0:55:16

Officer - 0:55:24

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:55:42

Officer - 0:56:21

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:57:01

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 0:57:22

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 0:58:54

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 0:59:30

Officer - 1:00:41

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:01:01

Councillor Mike Evemy - 1:01:04

Councillor Gina Blomefield - 1:02:18

David Stanley, Deputy CEO - 1:03:17

Overview and Scrutiny Committee
Monday, 7th September 2026 at 4:00pm