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Licensing Sub-Committee (Taxis, Private Hire, and Street Trading Consent Matters)
Thursday, 25th June 2026 at 2:00pm

 
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  1. Councillor Patrick Coleman
  2. Officer
  3. Officer
  4. Councillor Patrick Coleman
  5. Nickie Mackenzie-Daste, Officer
  6. Councillor Patrick Coleman
  7. Officer
  8. Councillor Patrick Coleman
  9. Officer
  10. Councillor Patrick Coleman
  11. Officer
  12. Councillor Patrick Coleman
  13. Councillor Patrick Coleman
  14. Nickie Mackenzie-Daste, Officer
  15. Webcast Finished

Councillor Patrick Coleman - 0:00:12
Ah, Ron Bolton everybody.
Good afternoon and welcome to this hearing of the licencing panel.
Officer - 0:00:45
Also to people watching at home, this hearing is being video streamed, so we are going to be on the television.
Officer - 0:00:53
I'd like to start off with just a little bit of housekeeping.
If you could please switch off your mobile phones for the course of the meeting.
We will, when you are asked to speak, press the correct button when you come up.
Councillor Patrick Coleman - 0:01:15
You see the little red light come on and that activates your microphone.
Nickie Mackenzie-Daste, Officer - 0:01:21
Councillor Patrick Coleman - 0:01:26
We don't have any fire drills this afternoon in case the fire officers will lead you to the nearest exit.
And I think I would like to start with some introductions.
I'll start with myself and then go through the panel members.
My name is Ian Watson. I'm the member for Cheque the Town.
I'm vice chair of planning and I'm chairing this licencing committee meeting this afternoon.
Michael Vann, I'm Councillor Fairford North.
Hello, my name is Paul Evans. I represent the Beaches Ward in Cirencester and I'm substituting for Councillor Ray Brassington today.
Good afternoon, I'm Councillor David Fowles representing the Colne Valley Ward. I'm also
the ward member for Bybury which is in the middle of the Colne Valley and I know both
the applicant and all the representatives from the village. But I've been advised that
I can sit here providing I'm willing to approach this with an open mind which I fully intend
to do so, to listen to all the views. Otherwise I'd have to leave the room. Thank you very
much.
Thank you, David. And now the officers. Marie, first up with you.
Thank you. Good afternoon. My name is Marie Barnes. I'm legal advisor to this committee.
Good afternoon. My name is Nikki McKenzie -Dast. I'm the senior democratic services officer.
Good afternoon, my name is Kevin. I'm the licencing officer for the Council District Council.
Good afternoon, I'm Mandy Fathers, Head of Environmental Revenues and Benefits.
Thank you very much. First of all on the agenda we're going to apologies. Liki.
Officer - 0:03:25
So we have apologies from Councillor Ray Brasington. Councillor Paul Evans is substituting for
him and we also have apologies from Councillor Julia Judd.
Thank you Nicky. That takes care of agenda item number two, substitute members as well.
Are there any declarations of interest among members or officers?
members? None other than the one I've already stated, which I'm the board member and know
everybody that's likely to speak, I believe, Jim.
Thank you, thank you, David. We now go into the substance of the meeting, and I would
like to ask the licencing officer to outline the application for the licence of the board
this hearing. Thank you chair. Firstly I would just like to inform you that the
Accountable Officer and the Report Author has unfortunately been taken ill
therefore I'm taking over for today. The applicant Lady Anne Evan has applied for
a street trade in consent for the sale of ice cream during the times of 11 a .m.
to 6 p .m. located on the hard standing in front of the public toilets the
street bybury. If granted the applicant seeks a six month consent which will be
from the 1st of April to the 30th of September due to processes and the need for this hearing.
If granted, the remainder of that period would be utilised.
Representations from the parish and seven residents can be found in Annex C.
All street training consents have mandatory standard conditions.
They can be found in the application, the agenda pack, but it's also within Annex D.
The only other point would be the Cotswold district council street trading policy, dated
2014, is current.
It is to be reviewed every five years and updated if and when necessary due to updates
in guidance.
It has been reviewed and there are no relevant updates that are required.
So that is the current policy we are working to.
Councillor Patrick Coleman - 0:05:40
The options for consideration by the subcommittee are to grant the street trading consent in
the terms of the application, to grant the street trading consent for a temporary period,
to grant the street trading consent with additional conditions or to refuse the application for
Officer - 0:05:52
the street trading consent.
I have nothing further to add, Jai.
Councillor Patrick Coleman - 0:05:57
When you said that it's being granted for a specific period each year, does that mean
it continues, does it have to be annually renewable if it is granted today, it is each
year from the 1st of April to September, is that correct?
Yes, it would need to be renewed every year, but after this initial...
It would need to be renewed? Yes, but it is not open to consultation on
renewal once it has gone through this process, unless there were complaints received from
Officer - 0:06:36
members of the public throughout that period and if there was a valid complaint received.
If a valid complaint was received, then that renewal application would need to come back to consultation and a hearing.
Last, Mari, the legal officer, about option two, which is grant a street consent for a temporary period.
If we found ourselves going down that route, then it would have to come back, would it or not?
Councillor Patrick Coleman - 0:07:04
How does that work if you grant it for a specific period?
And then it's does it is it subject to some form of review or if only if complaints are made or whatever?
clarity over that please
If the
Panel decide to grant it for a limited period then it would need to automatically come back to a hearing
They would also need to be grounds for that to take place and then based on evidence or anything
That was relevant to the application
But yes, if it was granted for say that year, then it would need to be reapplied for with a 28 -day consultation period.
If it went through that consultation period without any objections, then it would be deemed granted,
unless it was specified by the panel that you wished it to come back to a hearing upon renewal.
So that would be for the panel to decide on that condition.
Any more questions for our officer? Kevin, would you introduce the applicant?
Of course. We have Lady Anne Evans here, who is the applicant. I apologise. You did mention
your first name but I have forgotten if you wouldn't.
Sorry, Anne.
Anne.
Anne.
But if you wouldn't mind introducing who's with you because I did forget your name, I
apologise.
This is Katie who is my PA and right hand woman.
Thank you.
Can I invite you to talk about your application?
There is a timeline on this, a maximum of 15 minutes.
It's not a duty to fill 15 minutes but up to 15 minutes.
First of all thank you for taking the time to hear this appeal today.
It is important and much appreciated by 11 Bybury.
My hope is that today I can address and put to rest the concerns of objectors.
The proposal is part of the business of 11 Bybury.
Councillor Patrick Coleman - 0:09:13
Eleven is a premium hospitality, gallery and retail business.
It is a sympathetic reflection of its setting opposite iconic Arlington Row.
It is inspired by and reflects the rich historic and aesthetic legacy of its location in Bybury,
which itself lies in the heart of the arts and crafts movement.
The ice cream bike is a beautifully restored, low expense spared vintage cycle. It is in the
same livery as the business, painted in our own shade of bibery blue. That is the level of the
detail to which I approach everything. It has a state of the art freezer cabinet attached,
store the ice cream hygienically and at the right temperature prior to sale.
All we are trying to do is to generate additional revenue over the summer months
to support the business in these difficult financial times that frankly we all face.
We are not asking for anything that will change anyone's life for the worse.
To put this in perspective, as Kevin has done, the application is for six months.
We will only be trading up until the 30th of September.
It's only for six months because obviously there is little or no demand for street bought
ice cream in the winter.
I want you to know another reason why we are making this appeal, and this is something
that I have to deal with. We have invested in and trained a local young
bibury girl from Oldsmouth Road to operate the ice cream service. Sadly if
this appeal fails she will lose her job immediately. So the offering. Our ice
cream is made specially for us by Dolcetti and Sire & Sester using the
finest ingredients. We work with and support small passionate independent
businesses as local as possible. We will not be selling loose, scooped ice cream. There
are no loose editions, no condiments, no cutlery. Eleven is a premium hospitality business,
as I've already stated, but we are inclusive rather than exclusive. We welcome all, residents
and visitors alike, and we pride ourselves on our high standards. Key to this are our
work practises, especially around food hygiene and health and safety. At Eleven, we rigorously
follow all food handling and hygiene rules. We have to. The ice cream stand is absolutely
no exception. I want to address the concern that selling ice cream near the public toilets
is unhygienic. There is no rule in food safety law setting any distance between a food stand
and public toilets. What the law requires is that food is protected from contamination
and we meet that criteria very easily. Our ice cream is sold only in sealed tubs with
no open food, no scooping, no condiments, no cutlery because the spoon is on the inside
of the lid so nothing is exposed. It is kept in a closed temperature control freezer and
In our Cafe 11, a registered food business with hand washing is only 30 metres away.
We are of course registered with the Council as a food business.
I know that our ice cream is exceptional, but it is unrealistic to suggest that it alone
will bring increased numbers of visitors and traffic to Bybury.
I think we can all agree that no one is going to drive to Bybury or add to its traffic simply
to buy an ice cream from a bike.
This stand serves the people who are already here.
So that you can have an idea of 11 in relation to the proposed site.
The stand is located on the large paved area, not inside the public toilet block, which
Nickie Mackenzie-Daste, Officer - 0:13:40
which is 30 metres to the west of 11 on the High Street, but outside.
The High Street is known as the street.
Bridge House, exactly opposite the footbridge to Arlington Row, is between 11 and the proposed site.
Webcast Finished - 0:13:56
It should be noted that the owners of Bridge House have not objected to this application.
Visitors already cross here to use the public toilets.
The stand sits on that same paved area, so it creates no new reason to cross the road.
There is a pavement on that side where customers are served safely, well away from the carriageway.
If you actually look at the building from the opposite side of the road, you will see
that it is an unremarkable 1970s building set back from the road by lay -by and a boundary
wall with safe access for all pedestrians including wheelchairs and
pushchairs. The only redeeming factor of that space is a very mature Rabinia
Studio Acacia. There is a litter bin to the left on the pavement. We would of
course provide an additional litter bin to the stack next to the stand. As we told
the parish council two months ago, as a business we are prepared to supply at
our cost extra bins in strategic locations for the village. I would also
like to acknowledge the work of the flood warden who is here today and the
work that he does keeping the river clear. Because we sell only sealed tubs,
not loose ice cream, not cones or drinks, we will produce far less of the
loose litter that ends up in the water. Beyond the bin at the stand we have
offered to fund extra bins and I would gladly support river litter picks. There
are brackets on the wall for hanging baskets on this building in an attempt
to brighten up the area, which have not been used for years.
Far from providing visual clutter,
our vintage stand is totally in keeping with its environment
and will serve to improve a currently dowdy building
that Hanging Baskets clearly failed to do previously.
The toilets are either side of a separated,
large paved area.
It's important to understand this,
which is 14 metres times 4 .5 metres.
This is not a small space.
There is a low wall which clearly separates the space either side from the toilets themselves.
It is important to comment on the current usage of the toilets.
It is just a pure exaggeration to suggest that there are often lines queuing.
The public toilets are paid for.
Many visitors, and I can say this because I am a business and I experience this every
use the free facilities rather than paying. So the picture of constant long queues is overstated.
So we would place a stand on the unpaved area below the tree. So pedestrians, you haven't got
photographs, I have brought them, I know they're not admissible, all it was to actually give you a
describe it. So on the unpaved area, pedestrians are only walking on a fixed surface. There
is no danger to people tripping or anything. Because the bike sits off the footway, the
full width of the pavement stays clear at all times. Pedestrians, wheelchair users,
pushchairs alike. The stand will be removed each evening and repositioned each morning.
CDC owns the site, they have approved and support this application. If they had concerns,
they would not have done so. I want to address one objection directly, and this is important,
because it asks you to refuse this application on a point of law, and that point is simply
wrong. It urges you to refuse under the Business and Planning Act 2020 on the basis that this
is a payment licence, it is not. This is an application for a strict trading consent,
reference C forward slash 26 forward slash 00360 forward slash STC, granted under entirely
separate legislation. A payment licence governs tables and chairs placed outside a café.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with a mobile ice cream stand. The objection central legal
argument therefore does not apply to this application at all and I would
respectfully ask you to weigh it accordingly. The only proper question
before you is whether this the sighting is safe and free of obstruction and on
that answer it is clear the bike stands off the forway the footway on own land
owned on land owned and supported by CDC leaving the pavement entirely clear. As
you know over the past three years by has been subjected to increasing parking
restrictions to the extent that there is very little on -street parking available
in the village. In line with this the old lay -by which sits in front of the
building now has double yellow lines meaning no parking. Plus there is a no
light loading at any time sign to emphasise the point. If that wasn't
enough we have diligent parking enforcement officers kindly funded by
CDC who swooped immediately on any contravention.
For the purpose applied for, this site could not be more
discreet or safer.
Bybury is a one street town, if you know it,
and there is clear visibility down the entire stretch
of the B4425 at this point.
Adjacent to the river, the road is exactly the same width
if the lay -by is counted as inaccessible as the law states.
The ice cream stand and Eleven are in a far distance from the rest of the business in
Bybury. All businesses in Bybury are centred around the Swan Bridge. That includes the
Swan, the trout farm, the Twig and further up towards Barnsey out of the central area,
the Catherine Wheel. There is no future opportunity for any more businesses in Bybury. Eleven
is the only business sited towards the east of the village and it is a quarter of a mile
away from the Swan. There is no provision for visitors to buy ice cream in this area
other than Eleven's proposed stand. The current village ice cream provision opposite the trout farm
and let me explain this to you. There is an ice cream van which tends to trade at weekdays and
holidays, which is on the hard standing opposite the trout farm itself. Taking advantage of
the heaviest footfall and the building exactly opposite, a small building exactly opposite
the trout farm, is the trout farm's ice cream parlour. On possible congestion, it is very
important to note, the trout farm parlour and the van sit exactly where coaches now
drop off and pick up passengers en masse. There is no coach drop off at the other
end of the village where Eleven sits. There is also vehicular congestion on
the through road at the Swan Bridge because of traffic turning left over the
bridge to access the trout farm car farts. Without doubt our proposed site is
safer and less congested than the current area opposite the trout farm and
at the other end of the village. In conclusion, I am grateful that the Great
majority of the village has raised no objection. There are over 700 people who live in Bybury.
I have pursued this appeal because it matters to my business and to the people who work
for me, and I believe that it can be done in a way that respects everyone's concerns.
All I ask is to be considered with balanced common sense. I hope that I have shown that
there is no visual clutter.
This is not a slippery slope towards flea markets,
a sea of street vendors and hawkers.
There is no incremental intensification
of commercial activity.
It is just a small, temporary ice cream bike
serving people who are already here.
Creating, which we all want to do
in Gloucestershire, the Cotswolds,
and I know CDC wants to do,
a welcoming experience while these visitors
and residents enjoy the history and heritage of Bybury that should be available to all.
I would warmly welcome any member of you to visit the site to see for themselves
how discreet and safe it is as I can't show you the photographs.
So thank you for your consideration and time and I ask you to grant this application. Thank you.
Thank you very much indeed. Members of the panel, do you have any questions for the applicant?
Paul?
Thank you. Thank you for the information. We do actually have some photographs on our packs showing the proposed location of the bike, ice cream bike.
Just wanted to clarify one point. You mentioned putting the bike on a grassed area under a tree.
It's not grassed.
Okay. It'll be the hard standing area.
So basically you have this beautiful acacia tree and pseudo acacia.
And what you've got is the area around that which is actually quite a large rectangular area where the tree sits to the left.
that's where I would propose to put the bike that means that all of the
heartstanding is left for people to walk on it's safe. Okay yeah I was just trying
to clarify because I've got a photograph that that's got some grass outside the
toilets with the tree. Do you like to see this one? This is how it is. Not that one.
And I was just clarifying which side of the toilet block you were proposing. It is to the left.
The tree is to the, it's basically, I would like this area,
okay, there are two, it is enclosed by a wall at the front
with a walkway through, and then there are two walls
which distinctly mark this paved area, 14 .5 metres,
it's 14 by 4 .5 metres, okay?
There is a door that you can see facing you.
That is never ever used.
I mean I did we could put it there. I mean this is a bike we can move it
Trying to ascertain whether the bike was would be taking up hard standing area or whether it would be taking up
The area under under the tree looks that look crossed what your proposal was
It can go either. You can tell me where you prefer it. This is the beauty of this proposal
actually. It's a bicycle. What's your proposal as part of the application?
I know something. I've already said to you there's a whole series of empty. This is a
Horrible dowdy 1970s building. Okay doesn't do it. It doesn't look great
There have been hanging baskets clearly. That's not what this is going to uplift this entire area
It would be nice just to have it slightly to you know up to that one side of the walkway basically
Okay, as I say I was just trying to ascertain whether the proposal was to take up the hard -standing area or whether it was proposed
to take the space under the tree because the hard -standing area would seem to me
is the one that's most commonly used. Sorry to interrupt could I just make a
comment the image that has been included in your packs is an image that's
provided by Google Street View so it may be out of date the image that the
applicant may have might show it paved there so that that can be clouded I think
that area. I've got clarity, thank you, thank you, thank you to the officer as well.
In terms of the business model that you have to justify the expense of training
which is very welcome for a young person to be employed, what kind of
footfall are you anticipating on a daily or hourly basis during the season?
not some sort of massive commercialization thing. What I want to do is I want to provide
visitors with a welcoming experience. On a day like today, 35 degrees heat, what is not
nicer than just being able to go and buy an ice cream? That's all. That's all I want to
I am employing somebody. It is hard for these youngsters.
Every single member I need you to know of the staff that I employ are local people.
I have invested in this community and I want to continue doing it.
And uplifting the whole experience of by before everybody.
I understand that but as a panel we have to satisfy ourselves that any proposal will not
create a public safety issue or a public nuisance.
Hence my question of where is it going to go, which I now have the information, plus
do you have any views on footfall numbers that you would anticipate?
And that's part of the rationale that I certainly need to understand and fellow members may
need to understand in determining this?
It is very important to understand
that we are only serving people who are already here.
Simple as.
I don't think the council has firm figures on football
numbers.
There are lots of anecdotal opinions on, oh, there
are long queues and all of this.
No.
No, there aren't.
It's a complete.
If I sell 30 or 40 tubs a day, I will be lucky.
But I am providing a job for a local girl.
I am uplifting the area.
There is no visual clutter.
There is no provision for ice cream for our visitors at this end of the village at all.
And no prospect of the bit ever being.
And it is only for the warm summer months.
I absolutely understand that but I'm trying to get an understanding of how
many people will be present on that standing buying ice creams if we were to
permit this and therefore in my mind whether that number may cause additional
footfall that may cause a public safety issue given as we all know the volume of
tourists that we have in Bybury during the summer months.
So you mentioned a figure of 30 to 40 ice creams a day.
Is that the footfall that you would reasonably expect
or do you have a higher number in mind?
I believe that all I'm trying to do
is I am trying to support this local community, okay?
That is why I have invested in it.
I am not drawing in more people.
no matter how wonderful this, there will be no extra footfall to this than what is currently
being used for people on that side of the road, end of. Eleven is 30 metres away, okay?
Some of them won't be buying ice cream.
I appreciate that, but you're putting a van there, you're putting the bicycle there to
attract people who to cross the road or come into that area to buy an ice cream
perhaps some will be on top of those who would already ordinarily use the toilet
facilities anyway. I'm trying to ascertain in my mind whether the volume
have you got any numbers for the footfall that you've done modelling
looking at the business case for this or not and that is something that we as a
panel have to determine whether it is a public safety. I fully appreciate that
this is a potential community service but we're not judging this application
on that we have to judge this application on public nuisance public
safety issues and that's why I'm asking the question about numbers of people
that would whether they come whether they're coming additionally or not it
doesn't really matter but they will be coming to you or to this van if we allow
it to buy an ice cream and I'd like to understand the numbers that you perceive
would be coming to do that. I can't see more than 30 tubs a day.
Thank you. I think it's very important that you understand.
I am serving people who are already in the village. I am serving people who are already
here. I am not bringing people in. People are already on this side of the road going
to 11. But about 30, I would say 30, I'm hoping. CDC would like it to be more because
then they can charge me more money.
I understand. Thank you.
Thank you, Paul. David, please go ahead.
Thanks for your presentation, Anne. Could I ask you a few questions?
Yes, please.
Just building on what Paul said, I mean, obviously it would be impossible to work out
At this point how many people are going to be queuing up for ice cream? I fully accept that could be more than 30 tubs
It could be less
But and I also accept your point that it wouldn't be bringing more people into the village
But it is reasonable to assume
It will be bringing more people into this space who would normally just go there to use the toilets
So either people are using the toilets will have an ice cream as well. Hopefully after they've used the toilets
But then other people who are at that end of the village may choose to go in there and have an ice cream.
That's reasonable to assume, isn't it?
So there will be more people in that space than are currently there, surely.
So what is the point at all of having even this conversation?
If you're turning round to me and I'm saying to you, if I say to you that actually I'm not expecting to sell any ice cream, right?
What is the point? It is at the end of the day I'm selling tubs of ice cream
okay. If it was there would be no point if I if I didn't expect to sell
something. It's got to pay for itself David. I'm not disagreeing with the
fact that you're going to be selling ice cream I'm just saying that currently
that space is used to go to the toilet and if you're going to have an ice cream
bicycle in there it's going to attract more people that's all that's all I'm
Sorry, can I just interject? I think we can accept that if we've got an additional unit here, there will be people visiting the unit.
That's all I'm trying to say.
I think we can accept that and move on.
Can I just ask some other questions?
In the conditions that are listed in our report about the dos and don'ts, I'm trying to look at the page.
Oh, gosh. Sorry.
Yeah, it's on our page 25. I don't know.
Are these reports available to... does Anne have a copy of this?
Yeah, okay, so it says standard conditions for street trading.
You mentioned the fact that you would be providing refuse collection facilities, iBins, but it
also says here that in order for the bins to be used, they must be disposed of by a
licenced waste carrier.
Has there been any dialogue with a licenced waste carrier, i .e.
UBICO or someone else that if these bins are put in that they would be emptied by
by UBICO
Or another organisation because that's one of the conditions. I don't know if Ann answers that or you do. Could you answer that?
That's something that the business would put in place. It's not a requirement for the application
to come into effect when it comes to a street trading consent approval isn't
put in place until we get to the end of the application process where it's then
deemed granted. So once that is, once the African is aware of that they would then
maybe put relevant measures in place. In this instance I would expect 11 to
already have a waste contract in place for the business because businesses would
need that in place. But to meet the condition they would need to be able to,
there can't be rubbish left there, yes.
So we have a CDC waste collection two times per week. On top of that we are
open seven days per week. We have those five other days we pay for
privately so there is never any waste or litter left around the premises of 11
and it will be exactly the same for this bike.
So your question is after the licencing process that you will be discussing with our
licencing team the location of one or more bins, and you will
have those bins emptied under your licenced arrangements
already.
So my issue is it will be a licenced waste carrier that's
removing them, because one of the things that I feel quite
strongly about in the Cotswolds, not in Bybury, but just
generally is this, I'm not allowed to make a political
point, but we're not exactly overflowing, or rather the bins
are overflowing.
We're not overflowing with bins, because a lot of them have
removed on our streets and on our laybys. I'm just concerned that if this licence is granted that
the waste as you've already said in your application will be removed by you and you'll
take responsibility for that with a licence contractor. I think that's already been confirmed
David. Thank you.
I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just asking for clarification. Can I just ask a couple
other questions? Yeah? Please go ahead. Right. It says here that the I'm assuming
that the bicycle will be removed every day and brought back out every morning.
Fine. There's two other things in the standard conditions. One is signage.
There's no free standing signage. It's just the bicycle itself. You're not going
to have A -boards or anything around. Okay. And there's not going to be any
additional street furniture for people to sit down. Is that is that correct?
right okay could I just clarify the ice cream that you're selling would like to
sell at this location is it are you currently selling that that brand of
ice cream in in 11 as well so it's just an extension of what you're already
doing sorry counsellor that's not relevant to the consideration okay
I have a question about environmental matters of the officer or do I have to wait until
another time to do that?
It depends on what environmental matters you are talking about.
If it falls under environmental health...
One of the members of the public...
Sorry, may I finish?
Yes.
If it is an environmental matter dealt with under a different regime, then it is not a
matter for this committee.
Thank you. Selling ice cream outside a public toilet is that an environmental
matter that needs to be clarified or not? That would come under environmental
health which is not a matter for this committee. Okay so asking that a
different way of the officer if if we were to grant this application there
could there could be an issue to do with public health because we'd have to cheque
with environmental health that selling ice cream or food right outside a public
toilet is not a health issue. That's what I'm trying to get to. Is that right Paul?
They were a consortee on the application and they submitted no
objections were submitted no comments were submitted.
Okay yeah thank you thank you. David have you got any more substantive questions?
He's stressing the mile as well.
Some of them weren't.
No, I haven't.
Thank you, Jim.
Thank you.
Gentlemen, anything more?
Okay, thank you very much.
So, moving on.
I would now like to invite other interested parties who would like to speak on this matter.
The first person on my list is Bybury Parish Council.
Do we have a representative by by parish council?
If you come forward to the public speaking seat, could you just make sure that's working,
Nicky?
Thank you very much.
Again, you have up to 15 minutes to make your case, your points.
It doesn't have to be 15 minutes. Thank you.
Chair and members of the subcommittee, thank you for allowing me to speak. I am speaking today on behalf of Byber Parish Council.
The Parish Council objects to this application for street trading consent on the hard standing in front of the public toilets.
We want to be clear about the main
basis of our objection, safety.
Our objection is based on Cotswold District Council's own street trading policy 2014,
public safety, public order, and the prevention of nuisance or annoyance.
The policy requires the subcommittee to consider the safety of pedestrians and customers if
the street trading consent represents or is likely to represent obstruction, interference,
inconvenience, or nuisance to other street users.
Whether the bicycle and freezer can physically fit within the marked area is not the issue.
Whether the trading activity can operate safely once his full operational impact is taken into account is.
The proposed pitch is immediately in front of the public toilets.
Access to both the toilets and the proposed trading site is through a single opening in the wall measuring approximately 2 .4 metres wide.
Toilet users and customers approaching or leaving the ice cream unit would therefore be channelled through the same restricted access point.
Street Trading Policy 5 .3 .1 states potential for obstruction, interference, inconvenience as consideration.
The site is beside a very busy road at a known traffic and pedestrian pinch point.
The main riverside footpath used by visitors is on the opposite side of the road behind the busy parking zone.
The majority of customers moving between that footpath and the proposed ice cream unit would have to cross the road.
The subcommittee is required to consider whether the street trading activity represents or is likely to represent a risk by the foreseeable
effect of families and children seeing that unit from the Riverside path,
crossing towards it, gathering near the entrance and then crossing back with their purchases.
This would add a new pedestrian destination and crossing movement at
precisely the point where the road pavement and public access are already
under pressure. Customers do not simply arrive, make a purchase and immediately
disappear. They approach the unit, queue, wait for others and or consume their
purchases nearby and then disperse. The sub committee should therefore
assess the full operational footprint of the activity, not merely the physical dimensions
of the bicycle and freezer.
That footprint includes customers approaching and queuing, children gathering, toilet users
passing through the area, people waiting for companions, pedestrians crossing the road
and customers leaving with packaging.
The Parish Council considers that in directing existing toilet users and new commercial customers
through the same 2 .5 metre opening beside a narrow pavement and busy road, the street
trading activity will represent or is likely to represent a risk to the public by congestion,
obstruction, pedestrian conflicts and unsafe road crossing.
We have not seen any accessibility assessment or road crossing assessment demonstrating
how the entrance, pavement and surrounding area will remain safe, usable during peak
visitor periods.
The application proposes trading seven days a week from 11 a .m. Until 6 p .m. between April and September.
These are the months and hours when Bybury experiences its greatest visitor pressure.
In addition to safety, Bybury Parish Council also consider
preventing nuisance or annoyance. There is also a nuisance concern. The application proposes to clear waste from the immediate vicinity
but ice cream tubs, spoons, napkins and wrappers are often carried away and discarded later
along the village, river and visitor routes.
That is directly relevant to the objective of preventing nuisance from litter and waste.
You will be aware Danfo are the servicing company for the public toilets.
We have been advised that access to the toilets by Danfo is an operational matter and governed
by separate legislative regimes.
This may be so, but we feel that this does fall into the scope of matters under section 5 .3 .1 of the Street Trading Policy,
potential for nuisance to residents and other businesses, and potential for obstruction, interference or nuisance to other street users.
Finally, there is already substantial provision for ice cream in Bybury.
The applicant's own business, 11 Bybury, approximately 65 metres away, already sells ice cream.
There are also several other outlets in the village and a long -established ice cream van which has served by me for some 37 years.
Sorry, excuse me, we've established that the amount of users in the area are not a consideration and we shouldn't be speaking to that, thank you.
Okay.
We do not raise this as an objection to completion. Its relevance is that the proposed consent would create an additional customer
attracting points and more constraint and potential hazardous
roadside location despite equivalent products already being available nearby.
It would add to cumulative pedestrian activity, queuing and litter rather than simply meeting a need which cannot otherwise be met.
My understanding is that the subcommittee may grant, grant temporarily, grant with conditions,
or refuse.
The parish council believes refusal is justified because of the difficulty arises from the
location itself and that primarily it represents or is likely to represent a public safety
issue.
The parish council does not believe conditions can reliably control customer behaviour, children
crossing the road, existing toilet queues, pedestrians moving through the
restricted entrance or litter being carried away. For reasons of public
safety, customer safety, obstruction, inconvenience, accessibility, unsafe
pedestrian crossing, litter, waste and nuisance, the parish council respectfully
asked the subcommittee to refuse the application. Thank you. Thank you very
Thank you very much indeed for your submission.
Do members of the panel have any questions?
Thank you. Does the applicant have any questions for the Byward Parish Council?
Can I ask a question? Sorry, I'm a bit late in asking.
Excuse me.
I just, Chairman, I just, I don't know if this is relevant legally, but could someone
give me a feel for how busy these toilets are during peak times? I mean at the moment
if you look at that space in the evenings or whatever it's quite a large open space,
but when it's being used and it's busy for people going to use the loos, ladies and gentlemen,
I mean are there a lot of people that are already waiting there queuing?
Do they queue out? Do they queue onto the road?
I just wondered if the representative of the parish council could give us a flavour of that.
Because whatever we're doing we're potentially adding to that.
But I don't know if it's...
Let's ask that question.
Thank you, Chen.
These toilets are the only toilets in the village.
There is obviously toilets in the venues locally.
But we get a lot of footfall in the village who may have travelled a fair distance on a coach
Who have travelled a fair distance in a car and they are used an awful lot, okay?
It's the only only one along the street that they can go to
They've got to cross the road to get there most of the people who visit by we tend to stay
against the river Arlington Road to get to the toilets
They've got to cross the main road and anybody else who wants to purchase an ice cream will have to do the same thing
So there is an awful lot of footfall in that area.
At peak times there will be queues waiting for loot.
Thank you.
David, do you have a follow -up?
It might be very well, but not as well as certainly the speakers.
You say people cross the road, Simon, but is it,
is the footpath doesn't extend on the other side of the road
all the way down to the bridge, does it?
Because it goes in front of people's houses.
So it's a sporadic footpath on the toilet side of the road.
So people do tend to go on the riverside.
A, it's a nicer walk.
But B, am I right in remembering that there isn't actually a
footpath that goes straight along the other side?
They have to go, I'm trying to avoid comments like go and all
those kinds of things.
They have to walk along the riverside because there's no
continuous footpath on the other side.
Is that right?
You are correct.
The footpath ends at the lay -by where the toilets are.
So anybody who has visited the toilets cannot carry on walking to the centre of the village.
They have got to cross back over to the footpath along the riverside.
You may ask the question.
So what I would like to say is that all of the coaches,
the vast majority of the visitors to Bybury are offloaded outside the trout farm.
They are then going to, they offload off the coaches and the businesses will tell you that the first thing they do is they go into the trout farm.
Is this a question?
No, okay.
Where are the majority of visitors in Bybury dropped off?
I think we would all like them to be dropped off where they're supposed to be dropped off
but due to congestion they tend to be dropped off anywhere in the village and they may head
into one of the establishments to use their toilets but most of them will go to the public
toilets.
Can I ask another question please?
Are the public toilets free or paid for?
paid for.
So the point is that most people are using the businesses to go to the loan.
It's questions only. You've had your 15 minutes. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Again, up to 15 minutes.
Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, Committee and Officers.
Just to explain, I've had a home in Bybury for 45 years.
CDC in Gloucester County Council asked me to be a flood warden for the village.
Parish Council asked me to take care of river quality monitoring.
And then, strictly, I then undertake litter picking in the river as just a private citizen, okay?
I certainly know that number 11 has arrived by the number of cups
or the number 11 logo that I now fish out of the river.
I will not repeat everything that Simon has said, so I'll truncate my comments slightly.
I would comment that BBC have recorded 10 ,000 visitors per day coming
to Bybury on peak times.
That was based on an analysis done by a resident of Bybury working
with the National Trust using a simple counter sitting outside Arlington Road counting.
I think numbers are important in this.
I would also comment at this point also that the other seller of ice cream of note,
Mr. Nick Mazota, who's had the pitch with his van for the last 37 years,
sells up to 500 ice creams per day.
So I'm a bit surprised that a business selling four tubs per hour is credible.
So I question the statistic.
Sorry, excuse me.
We're not bringing the applicants.
No, it just seems a realistic number of 30 per day.
When the other ice creams, what the other?
It's not about.
Not relevant.
It's not relevant to the consideration.
You can try and keep it to relevant issues, please.
So traffic congestion, I'm assuming that we all know,
we know the relevant statutes there,
Section 37, Highway Act Number 1980.
Queuing is a major concern.
I'm involved with a number of issues to do with vulnerable
and elderly people, and getting walkers and people who need aid
plus women, mothers with pushchairs, et cetera,
is a problem in Barbary on the pavements because they're
congested, and I can see a clash between the queues for this
facility and the queues for the toilet and the disabled toilet
in particular, okay?
Interestingly, the people who clean the toilets under contract
with CDC. We're also very concerned about the congestion that will arise because it
will limit their access as they have to visit the toilets more than once per day to carry
out their contract duties. That's in peak season. This is an area of outstanding natural
beauty. It's a conservation area. And the council, not necessarily this committee, has
responsibilities under Section 85 of the Country and Rights of Way Act 2000. And one of our
concerns here will be additional signage. It's interesting that the applicant said
there'd be no additional signs. These are signs in by -bray now that the applicant
has put up. Sorry we cannot we cannot view extra matter that hasn't been passed.
The planning committee should note, okay forgive me, that these have been objected to by the planning
committee. The applicant has refused to correct these, okay, and has put up
additional signs. Sorry sir, these are matters that are outside the licencing committee's
we have to only deal with the relevant matters of considered...
But I think it would be irresponsible for the committee not to understand the history...
No, I appreciate it.
If there is an issue with enforcement that should go through planning enforcement,
we're talking about a licence today.
Enforcement have been working on that for some time, understood.
There would be an increase in noise, litter and nuisance caused by this activity.
Unfortunately, where people purchase the ice cream is not where they dispense the wrappers
and the plastic spoons and tubs that go with it, okay?
We do believe there's an impact on local businesses, but I'm told that's not part of this committee
either.
We think the location is unsuitable in front of a public toilet too close to Holmes Long
Bybury Street.
It's on a narrow pavement and it's a pinch point for tourist footfall.
Obviously, most tourists walk across in front of Arlington Road because that's where their
most famous photographs are taken and especially on TikTok visitors love that.
And so they will walk directly in front of this location.
And that's why it is one of the highest level of tourist footfall in the village.
We do believe there's a risk of crowd management issues and link with them.
We think there'll be an increased environmental impact.
It happens to be just opposite the river where we have water voles.
And maybe not your responsibility, but the Council has responsibility under Section 5 of the Wildlife and Country Act 1981.
And water voles are a very endangered species.
Just happens to be where they nest, are in the bank, just straight opposite where the site is.
We do believe also the council, again not your committee, has obligations under the disability access provisions.
Sorry, if I may interrupt again. You are referring to matters that aren't of the committee's nature.
So we need to curtail those points. I appreciate what you're saying and your passion.
We do appreciate your passion with these matters, but they are other regulatory matters that are not to be heard by this committee.
and they shouldn't really be addressed to this committee.
So, but does the committee take advice,
the same as the environmental issues,
does the committee take advice on these issues
and other relevant bodies within the council?
Yes, the committee, the officer, the application is consulted
as per, as it's required to of the, of the departments
within the council and they would have provided any responses
to the officer and would have been put in the reports as required.
Okay.
We also consider the cumulative impact of this project
okay, on the village. The County Council and CDC both recognise that Bybury is a
village under stress as is Boughton by the vast numbers of over tourism that we
have to suffer and we believe that with the large numbers of tourists, 10 ,000 in
the village and by the way the population is of the village itself is
between three and four hundred. 700 is the total parishes which includes
Ellington and Arlington and other locations, okay?
And in a village, 10 ,000 people is just,
is an unbearable number of persons anyway, okay?
And controlling the street people,
the street numbers is next to impossible.
The traffic wardens we've now got,
they're doing a fabulous job.
I can't, we can't sing their praises high enough,
but they have to control several kilometres of streets
and they're not gonna be there at this ice cream venue
whenever there's a traffic incident.
people pull up there incorrectly and illegally okay they're just not going to
be in that location so end of my presentation any comments or any
questions members do you have any questions for the applicant David short
and sweet a description of me well first of all I just wanted to make a comment
if I could chairman that questions please okay well all right I'll come on
to the comment when we're in private session.
I just want two questions.
Because of Mr. Chaloner's role in the village where he monitors
the river and the pollution and litter picks,
he made a reference to having to pick up quite a lot of food
waste from the river.
I just wondered if you could give the committee a sense
of the scale of that, Adhokiran.
No one's saying, I am not saying that it's directed
at one business.
I'm saying, obviously, people walk from all of the businesses,
they don't necessarily dispose their waste.
Could you just give the committee a feeling for what you're having to collect up,
collect out of that river at the moment?
I certainly can't comment where the rubbish has come from, okay, that's impossible.
But we pick up bottles, cans, sorry, apologies.
We pick up bottles, cans, lots of tissues, lots of plastic spoons,
lots of ring pulls from cans which I thought had gone out of use,
but we still have picked up 48 last weekend, okay, in one spot.
We typically pick up three to four sacks of rubbish out of the river
from the Swan Bridge down to opposite the village hall, okay.
Over what time period? Those four?
That's weekly.
Yeah, and the trout farm are also doing periodic litter picks in the river too,
and now I understand.
So that's in addition to whatever they're taking out of the river, okay.
Okay. Can I ask another question? A brief, short question?
You say that because the toilets are very busy that quite often the contractor that's cleaning the toilets are there at least once a day, if not more frequently than that.
I'm assuming from my experience with other toilets that when the contractor's in there, whoever's in there has to wait outside or leave.
Correct.
particularly if the staff are of different sects in the different toilets.
So is that obviously the case here?
But do they come with – so you get people having to wait.
Do they come with any equipment?
Yes.
So is it just people with buckets going in and cleaning tools,
or are there other bits of equipment that have to be wheeled in?
Could you give us a feeling?
Sorry, Councillor, I don't think that's really relevant to the application of siting a –
is get a sense of how much this space is used,
not just by people who are using the toilets currently,
but also by people who are cleaning them.
And if they've got big bits of equipment,
I think that's incredibly relevant.
With all due respect.
I'm not asking about the detail of why they're clean.
It's what's happening to the equipment.
Thank you.
Yes, I've spoken to the cleaners,
particularly about this application,
who've been on site.
Yes, they pull their van into the lay -by,
technically a no -parking zone,
but that is accepted by the traffic wardens.
They bring their equipment out, they park it in front of the toilets.
They then block off toilets in turn to clean floors.
Obviously, they're worried about slippery floors and that sort of thing.
And then when they finish, they take systematically from the three toilets,
male, disabled, female, they basically take down the barriers
and then open it up again, okay.
Thank you very much.
Thank you, Mr. Chell.
Does the applicant have questions?
Can you tell me please, Mr. Chaloner, the 10 ,000 figure that you quote, what days of the year was that?
I can't tell you the date. I can tell you that it was measured with counters
coordinated with the National Trust and with residents of Arlington Row.
And if you're happy, we'd be very happy to participate in a recount this summer.
But I would say that's a peak day, it's not an average day.
Okay, what I would say is that with respect to Mr Fechhahn, and most of what he said is
completely anecdotal, I've asked a question, he hasn't been able to answer it.
I'll leave it at that.
Thank you very much.
Oh you're a little bit late. I know, I know. But please go ahead.
Thank you Mr. Chandler. Thank you Mr. Chandler. I think we as committee
members recognise the issues that Bybury faces as a village in terms of its tourists and
I also I think we can all appreciate that that is not a relevant in and of itself matter
for this committee.
I just wanted to ask, do you have any, you had some numbers
on the number of tourists and visitors to the village that
you had on an annual day, and I've just looked up the BBC
report on that.
I'm not sure of the provenance of the data, but it is in the
public domain.
Do you know, given that you've had a conversation with the
people who maintain the toilets, how many people use those
facilities on an average day?
No, it's a good question, a reasonable one, and for example,
you might think the revenues of the toilet might give you some indication.
Unfortunately, as the other main toilet used in the villages at the trout farm, they learnt
a long time ago what happens is one tourist goes in, leaves the door open, and the next
one to come in.
So we don't have any way of measuring that, I'm afraid.
Thank you, Paul.
Thank you, Mr Chaliner.
All on.
So if the applicant would wish to briefly summarise their case, don't have to do but
a very brief summary of your case.
This is, we're talking about an ice cream bike here guys.
We don't need to have surveys and consultants and goodness knows what.
It is just trying. Why the village can't support a local business, I have no idea.
We have offered, and this is before, not the ice cream thing, right?
We've offered to provide waste bins. I have also lived there for 26 years.
I have invested money in the business. I care about the village.
I would just like to say again, I hope that you can give a balanced, considered, common sense decision
based on the facts, not anecdotes, whether it's 10 ,000 a day, it's ridiculous, 10 ,000 a day, or the public toilets are a stream of people.
It's not the case. You know, I can tell you I am I don't only live there
I have a business here. It's not like that at all
It could not be a safer site. It is it is it's safe
It's discreet it's back from the road. It is not going to bring in more people to the village
it is serving those who are here and
And it is actually trying to give a job to a local girl as well.
You know, I've told you, all of my staff are locally recruited.
This is important.
You know, I've been through it.
There is no clutter.
It's not a slippery slope to flea markets and street vendors and hawkers.
There's no incremental intensification of commercial activity.
Whatever you want to go into the legal speak, et cetera, et cetera.
It's just a small, temporary ice cream bike serving people who are already there, creating
a welcoming experience while they enjoy the history and the heritage of Bybury.
And as to signage, what a nonsense.
Signage that is put up throughout the village, whether it's for the Bybury Literary Festival
or the Craft Market or whatever.
For goodness sake, there are businesses in Bybury.
If we have no economy in Bybury, there are 200 people who work in Bybury,
and they owe their living to those businesses and the local economy.
We need to work together, businesses and residents together, and support each other.
That's what we need to do.
And this is a very small thing that I'm doing.
You know, I'm not, it's going to be minimal in terms of the amount of people who are going to use this.
It is just something to make it a better experience.
I'm not going to be tempting mothers with pushchairs across streets.
That's absolutely ridiculous to suggest it.
Anyway, I'll leave it there because I just think this is completely out of proportion.
I'm sorry.
So thank you for listening to me.
Thank you very much.
I just want to ask now the parties, the applicant,
and by whether you feel you've had your say
in the last 30 minutes, you're happy with that.
Thank you very much indeed.
This, at this point, the subcommittee will debate
what we've heard today.
We will go, are we moving to a separate room?
Yeah.
We will move to a separate room.
The decision, if we make a decision today, the applicant will be notified.
So if you care to stay around, is that correct procedure?
Yes.
Perfect.
We'll give the reasons for that decision, whether it's for or against.
any conditions that may be placed on the licence if it's granted and the right to appeal,
we'll inform you of the right to appeal if you do not agree with that decision.
So we are now going to...
Actually, you're saying that the speakers, everyone can stay here.
we will go outside to another room and come back, hopefully having made our decision.
So the decision is made today so it's worth people staying.
If they don't want to say, they'll be informed by writings.
That's what you're saying, yes?
Yes.
Okay, thanks.
If we can come to a decision in the next time after debating, we will communicate that today.
Okay.
Thank you all for waiting and apologies for taking so long. We had quite a lot to discuss.
First of all, you will notice that Councillor Fowlers is not at the front now and is in the audience.
This was because after hearing the applicants and the consultees and the objectors that he felt he was too close to the community as an active politician to take that decision.
So he has to recluse himself from the debate.
We are three councils here, so we are core eight.
We can take a decision and we have made a decision about what we want to do today.
So just for clarification.
Now I'm going to move on to the decision that we made.
There's some standard text here.
I will give some reasons for that decision and the decision that we've come to.
So, first of all, in arriving at our decision, the subcommittee took into account the requirements
to promote the three street trading objectives.
This is public safety, public order and preventing nuisance and annoyance.
The subcommittee also took into account relevant representations from statutory consultees,
members of the public, the parish council and the applicant.
In addition, the subcommittee also had regard to the authority statement of street trading policy.
Going on now to the decision and the conditions.
After hearing the concerns of the parish council and residents, a temporary licence will be granted until the end of September 2026.
This will help in the determination of any public safety or public nuisance impact.
The applicant will need to reapply for a new licence after expiry.
And I think that is a decision.
Also we have got, I apologise, we have got further conditions on this.
First of all, the standard conditions set out in the policy and report, which we've
had, and a condition regarding waste.
The licence holder will ensure that adequate measures are in place to remove litter or
waste arising from their customers and to prevent such litter from accumulating in the
immediate vicinity of their premises.
In particular, where necessary, the Premises Licence Holder shall ensure that adequate
measures are in place to provide customers with sufficient receptacles for the depositing
of waste materials.
And that is the decision of the Clerk.
If I may just clarify, sorry, that's the Street Trading Consent Holder rather than the Premises
Licence.
Apologies.
That's my copy there.
In that case, I bring these proceedings to an end.
Thank you very much for being with us today.