Licensing Sub-Committee (Licensing Act 2003 Matters) - Thursday 12 February 2026, 11:00am - Cotswold District Council Webcasting

Licensing Sub-Committee (Licensing Act 2003 Matters)
Thursday, 12th February 2026 at 11:00am 

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  1. Councillor Dilys Neill
  2. Councillor David Fowles
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  5. Legal Services
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  11. Councillor Dilys Neill
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  50. Councillor Dilys Neill
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  52. Councillor Dilys Neill
  53. Councillor Ray Brassington
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  55. Councillor David Fowles
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  57. Councillor David Fowles
  58. Councillor Dilys Neill
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  37. Councillor Dilys Neill

1 Apologies

Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:00:08
Okay, good morning and welcome to this meeting of the Licencing Committee. I'm Phyllis Neal,
Chair of Planning and Licencing and I'll be chairing this meeting. I'd like to introduce
my colleagues who are also here. Yeah, Councillor Ray Brassington.
Councillor David Fowles - 0:00:25
I'm Councillor David Fowles. I think it would be good practise to introduce
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:00:28
the officers as well. Good morning, my name is Kevin Dunford, I'm the licencing officer.
Officer - 0:00:35
Legal Services - 0:00:40
Good morning, Mari Barnes, legal advisor to this committee. Thank you. I'm Julie Gibson,
Officer - 0:00:45
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:00:50
democratic services officer. Thank you all very much. Are there any apologies? I think
not with it and there are no substitutions. Are there any declarations
of interest from members on this particular application? No thank you.
Councillor David Fowles - 0:01:13
Great okay yes do say something if you want to. No it's just a personal request
I've got a, I have a, my doctor is ringing me at 12 o 'clock,
it's one of those preorganized phone calls.
Would I, am I allowed to leave the room to take that or not?
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:01:31
Does that preclude me from taking part in,
Councillor David Fowles - 0:01:32
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:01:33
it would only be a two minute phone call, but.
I'm thinking if we're still going on,
we can take a comfort break at that stage.
Would that, would everybody be in agreement with that?
Yeah.
We all know what the National Health Service is like, so this is my slot this month. If I miss it, I'm snookered.
Are those of you who are making representations,
would you be happy if we're still going at 12 o 'clock for us to take a 10 -minute comfort break?
So I can.
Are you happy with that?
Are you happy with that, our legal people?
I'm just asking for your indulgence, okay?
Councillor David Fowles - 0:02:06
It's quite a serious thing, so I need to find out the answer to it.
Yes, the members do have to be here throughout, but if we are broken for a comfort break that
would be satisfactory because you still hear the whole of the matter.
Thank you for your guidance and forbearance. I should make it to that point, I hope.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:02:22
Councillor David Fowles - 0:02:23
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:02:26
So I am just going to read out the bit on the first page of our agenda really. So the
The four licencing objectives, unless you're going to do that,
Kevin, the four licencing objectives as given by the
Licencing Act 2003 are, one, the prevention of crime and
disorder, two, public safety, three, the prevention of public
nuisance, four, the protection of children from harm.
So we will be deciding this application with those four
objectives in mind and only those four. So I'm going to invite the licencing
officer to outline the application which is for a premises licence. Is that
correct? Thank you. Thank you chair.
Officer - 0:03:24
This application is for a new premises licence, forgive me if I pronounce this wrong, for

4 Application for a new Premises Licence

Hyon Hotel? Hill Hotel.
Trayangworth Manor, Trayangworth, Urbington and the Chip and Camden.
The application was submitted by Mad Fabulous Hotels Limited, represented today by James
Ramsbottom. They have a seat, a supply of alcohol, a money
to Sunday on and off sales 10 a .m. to 1 a .m. live and recorded music Monday to
Sunday 10 a .m. to 1 a .m. late night refreshment Monday to Sunday 11 until 1
a .m. and opening hours will be 24 hours for the hotel there has been an a
slight admin error in the publication of the annexes and the paperwork and there
were two annexes that were missing. I think all the Councillors have been provided with
those. Can we provide copies to the objective and the applicant? The two annexes that were
missing was a copy of the plans and site location. They were published and they were available
online. They've just been admitted for accidently from this report. The other
annex was slight amendments to the conditions and the operating schedule
that was put forward and that was agreed with the police and the applicant those
slight changes and I can direct you to what those changes are. It's mainly
wording so at the beginning of that condition it states that the premises
shall operate a CCTV system and the premises licence holder must ensure that.
So that is on, but it wasn't published so that should be at the beginning of
those conditions there for you. I'm just going to get what I've got there for you.
Thank you. So the document is titled Hill Hotel Conditions and then at the beginning there number one you've got the premises licence shall operate a CCTV system that complies with the minimum requirements.
And the police have just asked for that sentence be adjusted and they're saying that premises shall operate a CCTV system and the premises licence holder must ensure that.
It is just a change to the wording at that point.
Number two of that document, where it referred to SIA, they have included the words security
industry authority, that has been added.
Then later in that paragraph at the end, where it has got to be carried out by the DPS, the
police have added that the risk assessment shall be based on the following factors.
So they have added expected attendance, type of event taking place, special occasions,
so New Year, Halloween, local events, etcetera, and premises licence conditions.
And then they've also updated number six, the wording of, to state that designated premises
supervisor must have completed action, counter -terrorism, ACT, e -learning training, as soon as reasonably
practical.
In all cases within 28 days of a new designated premises supervisor being named on the licence.
They must have completed this training to be able to provide evidence of this as requested, if requested, by the police officer or authorised licencing officer.
And then on number nine, the last paragraph being for section eight, there was a sentence added in incidents of harassment.
It reads in total the premises duty of care policy,
understanding and dealing with situations involving vulnerable people.
And the police have amended it to then continue to say incidents of harassment,
incidents of violence and intimidation against women and girls,
and how to report the issues of modern slavery and trafficking.
That's the end of what the police asked to be added and included within those conditions.
They've largely unchanged other than the wording in those sections and they've been agreed by the applicants. I
Have nothing further to add
Chair.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:08:21
Can I, I don't know if this is appropriate to ask you or to ask the applicant.
How many people is it anticipated that will be coming to this event or do I need to ask the applicant that?
Officer - 0:08:35
The applicant will be able to clarify that for you with regards to the number. A premises licence allows up to 5 ,000 people
but obviously that is the extreme level before then there's different bands of
fees. With regards to the premises, obviously they need to go through
actually it's with the fire service escape routes and capacity of a building so the
applicant will be able to confirm what their anticipated capacity will be.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:09:04
So you have there's a there's a personal licence holder as well isn't there already
nominated yeah I think this is the questions that I'm going to ask which
are around the nature of events are more appropriate to ask the applicant then
yeah okay anything further to ask the officer no thank you okay now it's the
opportunity of the applicant yes so I think it's up to you to introduce the
Officer - 0:09:35
applicant yeah applicant James Rand from Graham's bottom representing Hill Hotel
Applicant/Agent - 0:09:42
thank you very much can I start by maybe providing a little bit of background
to myself and my experience with hotels and events and things of that nature.
I mainly, I started in restaurants about 30 years ago, then added some event space
to restaurants and then moved into hotels about 15 years ago. I have three
three hotels that are a mixture of rooms and events.
And this is my first venture in the Cotswolds.
My business model tends to be small boutique hotels.
This is slightly different in the sense that
The market that we're going for at Hill is substantially more upmarket than the other venues.
For example, when we took over at Hill, I think the room rate was around £100.
And I would say there are customers paying about £700 for a room this weekend.
So we've spent £3 million so far in the refurbishment of the hotel.
And we've substantially tried to move it to a much more low debt.
They were very much pile them high, sell them cheap,
whereas we are very much moving to a lower density model,
but more upmarket.
And that, to sweep with that, the venue itself has a function
room already in place called the Orangery, which I believe some
of the local residents have got some experience on.
And I think that's part of the reason why they're very jittery
about what's going on there.
It's not quite in the right place on the site and it's not of sufficient quality.
So we are... The next phase of development that we've just gone on site with is a 2 .7 million pound.
We've knocked the swimming pool down and we're building a new function room there, which is of a similar size.
The current orangery is licenced to midnight for music and 1am for liquor.
And the proposal was to try and move the music, rather than stopping the DJ at midnight and then allowing people to carry on drinking till 1, it was to try and align the two.
Now obviously there's been substantial...
I've already met with the residents and had substantial
dialogue with them and obviously they were very
nervous about that.
So I've actually scaled back my requests to 12 .30 to
allow then half an hour of drinking up time before
people leave the premises.
So we're very much trying to move to a much more up
market model with weekend...it'll be a mixture of corporate events and weddings, I would
say. The capacity...the room is modest in size. If you cram everybody in and you put
them on long tables, you could get 150 people in there, but that's not really...the average
wedding is about 80, and I would say it would be between 80 and 120 people that would come
for an event there. Obviously because the room site, the actual amount of bedrooms
you have is limited and the actual size of the function room being 14 metres by
9 metres is relatively small, we are going for more smaller scale events but
obviously 80 to 120 is still a substantial amount of people. I accept
that. So we've met with the residents. I think the the orangery that exists there
at the moment has got glazing on three sides. This has only got glazing at one
end and it's a much more substantial build in terms of stone, a stone building.
So I'm anticipating the other issue I think that the previous that the
that essentially the objectors will no doubt go into more detail, but did not run the venue
very responsibly at all.
And the current licence that they have is a very old licence which has no protections
in for the licencing objectives.
So the idea was, and I think it's slightly through the cat amongst the pigeons, when
applied for a new licence which was a lot longer and in more detail everyone
went oh my word and really the point of the new licence was to just modernise it
and actually provide some more protections for for the local residents
and so I felt that my general approach with it was I don't want to be
disturbing people at 12 o 'clock never mind 1230 that's almost irrelevant to me
I have to run a responsible venue whereby I incorporate sound limiters into the sound system.
I close doors and windows at 10 .30. I operate responsibly so that I can live side by side with my neighbours.
And obviously the previous operators weren't doing that. So I could understand their concerns,
but I was there trying to say look I'm going to offer a modern licence with much more protections.
I'm going to offer a sound management plan and for that I'm trying to get an extra half an hour so that these
these
upmarket events that go on people don't feel hurried and
It's it's an extra half an hour, and I felt that that was a reasonable compromise obviously
I've met with residents a fair few of them have withdrawn their objections on the basis of the concessions that I've made and
Just refer to my notes
So as far as I'm aware, the new licence is more fit for purpose.
Commitment not to cause a nuisance, asking people to leave
the premises quietly, windows and doors shut when there's
a DJ on.
The environmental health, who are the experts in this sort
of field, they have no objection provided a noise management
plan goes into place.
So I feel my business model is to buy premises, invest quite
heavily in them and have them for the long term.
It's not a sort of fly -by -night hotel company.
It's very personal to me.
And good relations with my neighbours is extremely
important, both in terms of from a business point of
view, but also from a moral point of view.
I've got a, you know, I like to run a responsible
business, and I feel as though I can do that here
with the support of the residents and the licencing committee. Do you have
any other questions for me? Thank you very much. That's the end of your
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:17:07
Applicant/Agent - 0:17:13
presentation essentially. Okay colleagues do you have any questions? Yeah yes I do
Councillor Ray Brassington - 0:17:16
Chair. Did I hear you correctly when you said the existing licence has got no
conditions on it?
It's a very fair licence.
Applicant/Agent - 0:17:23
I mean, Kevin will probably tell you a bit more.
Officer - 0:17:28
We don't have the licence here at hand because this is a new
premises licence application.
We shouldn't be taking the previous licence
into consideration.
The applicant is able to refer to it, but it is an older,
outdated licence, and I can confirm the intention
was to modernise it.
Thank you.
Councillor Ray Brassington - 0:17:45
Turning now to paragraph C, prevention of public nuisance.
You say noise from amplified musical voices shall not cause a noise nuisance.
Can you define nuisance to me, please?
Applicant/Agent - 0:18:05
I don't want my neighbours to be disturbed by what's going on there.
If you want a decibel level.
Right, okay.
What do you think is kind of being a nuisance?
Disturbing their sleep, I would say, is a nuisance.
I would say, I was talking to one objector outside and saying that the issues, in my
experience, often come, if you put everything else in place, often come from live bands.
Because live bands, you can't put through a limiter and therefore it's more difficult
to control their sound and they all think they're playing Wembley Stadium so it can
be quite tricky. So again the current licence has no, I don't want to say that because I'm
not sure, I don't think it has any restrictions in and when the live music can play. I've
offered the residents 10 .30 for live music, live acts to finish, which I think is the
main bone of, can be the main bone of contention. It's very difficult. I can't put my hand on
and say I can control the live band. So I'm saying I will not allow live bands to play after 10 .30.
Okay, thank you. You said you should not disturb people when they're asleep. What about disturbing them when they're awake?
Councillor Ray Brassington - 0:19:17
Applicant/Agent - 0:19:21
Obviously it depends on the threshold of what is going to annoy someone I suppose, but there will be noise emanating from the premises as there always has been.
So...
Yes, it's your position, you're going to control the noise to prevent a nuisance.
If you can't tell me what's a nuisance, then it's a meaningless condition, isn't it?
Just repeat that.
Applicant/Agent - 0:19:45
If you don't define what is a nuisance, then it's a meaningless condition.
I think the law defines what a nuisance is, is that correct?
In where?
The law defines it.
What law?
The common law.
The common law?
Yeah.
So you're talking about public nuisance?
Public nuisance, yeah.
And who will judge that?
Oh, no. You've got... You're performing.
Who's going to cheque if it's not causing any issues?
I think there's obviously going to be an element of...
In the premises that I have had, the objectors have not ever had communication between the hotel and the resident.
So the first port of call would be, they would ring the hotel, they would have the general manager's number,
If it was seen that there was someone at open windows when they shouldn't have, that would be the first port of call.
If we decided to ignore that resident, which would not happen, they would obviously call Environmental Health.
They would send somebody down, I'm assuming.
But that, in the 30 years that I've been operating, I can't think of one incident where Environmental Health have had to visit one of my premises.
So somebody rings up a hotel, complains about noise, somebody goes and cheques the windows,
if the windows are all shut, what happens next?
Well, as I've said, we will have put limiters in place if this new licence is granted without...
You're putting on put noise limiters if it's live band played?
Oh, if it's live, but look, I cannot turn around to you and say that if there's a live
playing at nine o 'clock at night that local residents won't hear it and
therefore be disturbed whether it qualifies as a as a public nuisance I
don't know I mean obviously that the live music act allows allows live music
to be played outside or sorry allows music to be played indoors or outdoors
until 11 p .m. I understand under the law okay my question was if a resident
complains to you on the night yeah so when he goes and cheques the windows
What's the next procedure? What do you do next?
I'm not anticipating that provided that we follow the steps that we agree in the noise management plan that there will be a problem.
But obviously if somebody is objecting to noise from a live band pre -1030,
then obviously under the current licence I can put a live band on until midnight.
So I'm trying to offer what I consider to be a compromise.
I think if somebody's next to an existing hotel with an existing events facility, then
there is obviously an expectation that there will be some noise at reasonable hours.
Of all due respect, I don't think you've answered my question.
Sorry, just...
The question is, you've checked that the doors and windows are closed.
What happens next?
You haven't answered that.
Well, I would make a judgement when I think, consider that whether there is an unacceptable
level of noise coming from the premises. I can use a decibel metre if required
and then if I consider it to be within the limits that I've set myself then
they would have to call environmental health but as I say I've not come across
that situation. Okay, what happens when you're not there? No, this would be my
You say that because it's noise nuisance occupants of nearby premises, what's nearby?
Define nearby to you please.
Just repeat the question please.
You say it's noise nuisance occupants of nearby premises, what's nearby?
Well, neighbouring I would say.
What immediately adjacent?
Well, the nearest noise sensitive property I would suggest.
Sorry, just to one house then?
No, no.
No, not just the one house.
What happens if it's not the nearest premises who complains?
What happens if it's somebody half a mile away who can hear it?
You don't go then.
Say that again. I'd follow the same procedures as discussed before.
Yes, but your licence condition says to nearby premises.
what I'm saying if personally who's complaining is not nearby what do you do
then if you want to suggest an amendment to it I mean I would it's of course it's
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:24:27
my business to intervene here but I would have thought anywhere where the
noise could be heard would constitute a nearby premises would you be happy with
that? I'd be very happy with that. With that definition? Yeah. So it might be in
Eberington or at Charingworth itself or one of the neighbouring villages. Yeah.
Anywhere where's the potential for the noise to be heard could be considered
nearby premises. Would you be happy with that?
Something like that.
Applicant/Agent - 0:24:54
The nearest houses, how close are the nearest houses and how many?
I'm not sure. I think the object is we'll probably have...
Surely you know where how close the houses are to it?
Oh, I've not had a survey done.
No, I mean approximately. Is the nearest house 50 metres away, 250 metres away?
From the functional room I would probably say about 100 metres away.
100 metres away. Right, thank you.
And you mentioned about a noise management plan. Has that been submitted yet?
No, but I've drafted one which you can see.
Yeah.
Well obviously if it's not been submitted we can't assess it and make comments on it.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:25:38
I think ERS people will be responsible for dealing with that.
It will go to ERS won't it? Yeah.
Councillor Fass.
Applicant/Agent - 0:25:48
I know the venue very well, although I haven't been to live music at dinners there.
So I know the location and to be honest, when I read this application I always thought of
Charingworth Manor Hotel as being very isolated.
So, building on what Councillor Brassington said, so there are on sort of pages 238 going
Councillor David Fowles - 0:26:20
on there are comments from a number of residents, all of whom seem to live in the Charingworth
Hamlet.
So, are we talking about just a handful of people?
I know one person's important, but my impression is that it's quite an isolated location, but
Is it just these handful of people?
Yes, I know, I can see that, but it looks,
I always thought of Eberington and being the nearest village.
But is it just a handful of people in the hamlet
that we're talking about?
Yeah, I mean, I think there's five objectives.
There was nine, I think, four or four in a way.
The second question relates to a comment made by several of the
the objectors that the norm in that area is for licences that
cease at 12 o 'clock.
Is that, and that's the national standard.
Is that, is that, is that residents just expressing
their views?
Okay.
So in terms of the national standard or in terms of licences
nearby?
So there's two questions.
It's not relevant to a licencing application.
an applicant can apply for any. There isn't a national standard when it comes
to what they can apply for. If there are other licences that are set to that, then
that may be the case, but it's not relevant to this application and it's
not something that's governed by this legislation.
Okay, and the third question is probably directed more at you. This issue of noise
travelling because it's on a high, it's very exposed, it's on a high location, is
Is that a fact that noise travels, I don't know enough about this,
it's much more accounts of the Brastington's area of expertise,
but if it was low down, would the noise not travel as far?
It's because it's in a very exposed and high position,
the noise travels further, is that correct?
Officer - 0:28:18
I'm afraid I can't answer that with regards to how noise travels and how it affects.
That's mainly because it's part of the technical pollution team's role.
It's not something that we consider from a licencing perspective.
If, as the applicant stated, he's referring to, he's offered a condition to the residents,
or not a condition, but he's offered to bring live music back to 10 .30.
That ultimately makes that activity not licensable up until 11pm under the 2012 Live Music Act,
act between 8 a .m and 11 p .m live or recorded music is not licenseable so if that is agreed
with the committee applicant and the objectives that it comes back to 10 30 that essentially
makes that activity not licenseable with regards to the recorded music that will continue
potentially obviously depending on the outcome of today the applicants suggested 12 30 cut off for
that timeframe from 11 p .m. until 1230 is licensable, so that is part of the application
and that's what's been considered by the technical pollution team with regards to noise and noise
travelling.
Now, the technical pollution team stated that they reviewed all the application and all
the details, supporting information, and they looked at the history of the premises.
They didn't have any objections to the application and they didn't seek any comments or conditions.
I think there wasn't just an advisory to the applicant to consider putting in a noise management plan
Which can be looked at and worked with and to my knowledge that was one of the conditions
I think that you've suggested that is added to the conditions
For to help with the premises and the relationship with the objectors and the local residents
So that would be a condition that the applicants volunteering today
but there hasn't been an objection from the noise team and they haven't provided any information in relation to how that noise is travelling or
how it may impact them because they've deemed it as not required at this stage. If there were objections,
sorry, not objections, if there were complaints,
if it's within the licence period,
the complaints, there wouldn't be a breach of licence.
The objection, the complaint would have to go to the noise team. The noise team would speak with the
and explain how they need to log this, how this is recorded.
The noise team would speak with us to confirm that it wasn't a breach of licence.
If it was, we would obviously then become involved there.
And the premises would work with the noise team to adjust this noise management plan
if it was agreed today that there was a condition that confirmed they required that.
And then they would hopefully be able to resolve the situation.
If it wasn't resolved, then the noise pollution team are able to call for a review of the licence.
As are members of the public, if they've been submitting that evidence,
that there is a continued problem, they can also submit a review of the licence.
Yes.
Again, Director, you can.
Councillor David Fowles - 0:31:28
I'm trying to get my head around the four objectives that the
Chairman mentioned at the beginning.
What actually, the definition of what constitutes a public
nuisance, okay, is a public nuisance if three or four
residents are concerned about the noise and their sleep
or whatever, and that constitutes a public nuisance.
So the bar is quite low.
Sorry.
Officer - 0:32:02
It's a very difficult one to answer,
and I don't think there is a clear definition.
If you are being disturbed and you report that,
and it can be recorded and logged, then that is a disturbance
if an individual is feeling they're being disturbed.
But there is, to my knowledge, legal may direct me otherwise.
But if there is a cause for concern and there is a disturbance, there are apps that the
noise pollution team have where they can record noise levels.
There are noise levels that the noise pollution team work to and that are deemed higher or
lower.
They would need to clarify that for you.
Obviously, they're not in attendance, having not objected.
But they do have some levels that they work to, which would be deemed as severe or not
so severe.
but if somebody is complaining about something,
then it will be investigated thoroughly and assessed.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:32:56
But building on what Councillor Brasington said,
Councillor David Fowles - 0:32:58
the sort of practicalities of if music's being played at
course to one in the morning and you're woken up and you
make a complaint, you contact the hotel,
you've then got the noise pollution people aren't there
to hear that, they've then got to go back and how do you
replicate that?
I can't get my head around the reality of residents being
disturbed because of loud music, making a complaint,
and then how we then follow that up.
It just seems, how do we do that?
I mean, it just seems crazy.
I mean, in an enforcement situation on planning,
you know, someone builds something,
it's physically there.
You can go and see it and you can monitor it,
but this is something very, very different.
It's a moment in time.
It then goes and then a complaint's made.
What's the mechanism?
I just don't find it really difficult to understand.
Forgive my ignorance.
No, you're absolutely fine.
Officer - 0:33:52
Like I've said, it's the noise pollution team's area
of expertise, so I can't answer all of those questions.
That's why they were consulted on with the application.
If there had been complaints or a history of issues,
then they would have recommended conditions.
When we're talking across the board around the district, if there are issues, then complaints
can be submitted either to the applicant or the premises, wherever it may be, and they
can obviously submit it to the noise pollution team.
How they would deal with that and address that, they would need to clarify that and
specify that because it's separate from our legislation.
It's not covered under licencing legislation.
So when it the noise management plan if today is agreed that it should be a condition
That's something that they would have to submit
to our our team
The noise pollution team to have them review and approve and and they're reaching agreements on an appropriate noise management plan
They would normally be involved in that a phone number to be called and a way of logging these
these complaints
for the noise pollution team to be able to work with the premises to confirm that they are logging them correctly.
They aren't being reported correctly and whatever steps may be required as part of their procedure.
But as I've said that is a procedure and a plan that's put into place by the noise pollution team and it is separate from ourselves.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:35:18
Councillor David Fowles - 0:35:21
The Chairman's just referred me to public nuisance defined under the large document which I hadn't read in detail.
I confess, page 60, but I'm now reading it.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:35:28
One last question.
Councillor David Fowles - 0:35:32
Could you just remind me in terms of, you know,
is it possible to grant the licence for a trial period
to see how things settle down in reality?
Or what's our sort of, what's the scope,
what's within our power to grant?
Is there a minimum time period that we can grant?
or is it?
Officer - 0:36:00
The licence is issued and the licence is granted.
Once the licence is granted, it is then in place and they will pay an annual fee and it will stay in place.
This is our opportunity, or your opportunity, to consider conditions to safeguard concerns.
And like I say, there are mechanisms in place where a licence can be reviewed,
where then it would come before the committee again if it was reviewed for any situation
or issues to be discussed and any relevant action to be taken.
That could include revoking a licence, that could include adjusting the conditions so
they're appropriate to whatever the complaints may have been.
But once a licence is issued, then there isn't a – it won't be temporary in any way, no.
Councillor David Fowles - 0:36:50
In reading the documents, it seems that you've established a good relationship with the residents,
all of whom seem to be delighted that you've taken it on and that you're upgrading the hotel, etc.
They're all saying that they're very happy with the alcohol licence, but it's the music that's causing them the problem.
Is that, would you say you've got a good relationship and if,
for example, the music wasn't an issue,
everything would be fine.
It's the music that's causing the problem, is it?
Yeah, it's, well, it was the extra hour,
but then I've scaled that back to extra.
I meant the extra hours in relation to music.
In terms of your relationship with the community, et cetera.
Very good.
They were very consistent.
Very nice thing said about you or your company.
Okay.
Applicant/Agent - 0:37:34
Thank you very much.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:37:36
For myself, when you're talking about the functions, how many are you anticipating having a year?
Do you think it would be every weekend? It's probably going to be every weekend in the summer, isn't it?
No, not necessarily. We're very much going for high -end, low -volume.
So I can't put a number on it, but we're expecting, say, maybe 30 weekend weddings.
Applicant/Agent - 0:38:02
So the way that's quite popular in the Cotswolds for high -end weddings is people book you for the whole weekend.
and only one of those nights is the full party on if you understand what it means.
So that means it's less noise, it's less intense.
Another one of my venues is what I would describe as a wedding, not a wedding factory, but they have 120 weddings a year
and one bride leaves, another bride arrives, but that's not the model here
because that is not for the sort of level that we're after,
that's not what the customers want,
they want weekend weddings.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:38:41
And then midweek you might be hosting a corporate event.
Yeah, corporate events, but they're not.
Applicant/Agent - 0:38:44
Not quite so noisy.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:38:45
They're not, no.
Applicant/Agent - 0:38:47
They're not DJ based, but there's obviously
a very strong demand for high -end corporate
product launches and things like that there.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:38:55
And then the rest of the time, it's running as a hotel
with people just able to book in the regular way,
is that right?
Correct, yeah.
Applicant/Agent - 0:39:01
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:39:02
And the bar facilities are open to members of the local public as well?
Applicant/Agent - 0:39:08
They are. The bar that we have only has 50 covers and we have 26 rooms,
so there's very limited scope for non -residents, unfortunately.
You've got 26 rooms?
Yeah.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:39:20
So, when you're having an event where you've got between 80 and 120 people,
maybe 50 people will be staying, and then the rest will be having to go home.
So I think there was also some anxiety about the noise that would be created when people were leaving.
You're going to ask them to leave quietly, but then you'd have people in place who had the experience of asking people to be quiet.
If people had been drinking and then dancing at a wedding, they're often a little bit raucous when they leave.
Applicant/Agent - 0:39:55
They are and obviously there's ways and means of dealing with it. For example, for the hour of people leaving, say from half twelve to half past one, you would post somebody in the car park area where you would make sure that they're chaperoned home.
Secondly, you would create an area on the front of the hotel. There is a pull in where the taxis would be encouraged to pull in and turn around rather than going round to the rear of the hotel where the village is.
So there's ways and means to manage that.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:40:27
Okay, so that's something you've thought about already.
Yes, it is.
Are you planning to use any sort of marquee
or tent as well to extend it?
It's all going to be, yeah.
I mean, there may be one and you'd have to apply,
I would have thought, for a specific licence for that.
I don't know, but it's not anticipated to be a marquee.
That's why I'm spending so much money
on a beautiful function room.
And you're certainly not planning
to run a large music festival there.
No, I am not.
That's good to know. I think you've covered most of the...
The function room that you're planning, you're designing that with the whole idea that it would be as noise -proof as possible.
Is that the reasonable thing to say?
Applicant/Agent - 0:41:09
I would say no, but it is, I mean, yes, it's a much higher speck of building.
That's happened naturally because it's a modern building made of brick
and it has one facade with glass in. The planners were keen on that because of
dark skies issues, because reflectivity of the glass in the area. So it's
been a collaboration between the conservation officer from the planning
team and my architect. And obviously the building that we're creating is
church -like so lots of stone and one facade that has the views away from the
village which is behind you the views over the over the fields in front so it
things are directed away from the village okay and so that that planning
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:42:05
application is in process at the moment is it it's been granted but it's been
granted? Yes. Okay. Thank you very much. I think that's all the questions I've got
to ask. Have you concluded the questions? I was actually going to ask the question
Applicant/Agent - 0:42:21
about the thing you've answered. When you look at the site plan, the residents at the
other end, are they behind the leisure facility? So you're at the front end
looking down the valley? Correct, exactly. Down the hill? Okay.
Thank you very much.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:42:44
Now can I ask the objector to come forward?
Could you introduce yourself and then somebody will help you with the microphone.
My name is Francis Welsh.
Public Speaker - 0:43:06
I am a 22 year resident of the Hamlet of Charingworth and
a little bit nervous and
the residents have asked me to
to come today with their thoughts about the
application for 1230 for 30 minutes over midnight to extend the
music licence
Now I've written out all of this and I'm hearing this, I'm going to be saying things that I
probably shouldn't have been saying.
But anyway, thank you for your time.
The current music licence is appropriate and consistent with the other venues in the parish.
So there are other models around that close before 12 o 'clock and we feel that 12 o 'clock
is enough time to have music.
I did do a little bit of an experiment.
The hotel's elevated hilltop position means that noise travels significantly.
Several dwellings are approximately about 20 metres away from the walls of Charingworth
Manor.
The hilltop location causes sound, especially bass, to travel, for example, with a frequency
of about 30 hertz, it equates to 11 .5 metres of sound travel.
Indoor music does not prevent noise escape, especially in warm weather.
I have just found out that the function room is going to be changed, but as it stands today
and probably will be whilst it's being built, the new function room, it's being held in
Conservatory which is three sides of glass and from previous experience those
windows are open because it gets incredibly hot there in the summer.
Therefore music does spill out into the residential area. There's ten houses in
the hamlet, there are three behind Charingworth Manor and then the rest
are down the side of the Charingworth Manor.
We're probably 200 metres away, I'm guessing,
from the actual manor itself, the majority of the houses.
We feel that 12 o 'clock, as it stands today
with the conservatory, is enough time for the music to be played.
and we would deem it a public nuisance after that time.
So we would consider the imposition of noise
and lighting controls, including the prehabitation
of amplified music in temporary structures
and windows and open door restrictions and live music.
Thank you for the 1030 cut off
because it does get very loud.
it's just that we know what it sounds like. I've spent 22 years there as
have many of the other people and it is very noisy and to go past 12 o 'clock I
think would disturb our sleep as it stands today with that conservatory.
Thank you very much. Is that all that you want to say at the moment?
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:46:43
Sorry. That's finished up what you had to say. Okay, so I'm now going to ask my colleagues if they would like to ask you any questions.
Councillor Ray Brassington - 0:46:55
Thank you, Chair. Thank you for your comments. You said you represent residents of the hamlet. Approximately how many residents are you representing?
Public Speaker - 0:47:06
Eight residents. Eight. Thank you. Some of the residents complain, especially to them,
every word on the microphone and song can be heard. Every music track, every comment from the
DJs. Was this recent experiences or does this relate to when the hotel was previously gone?
It was previous. Since we haven't heard any noise at this time in the last six
months but the previous owner we would hear everything. We would hear the
speeches. It was because most of the doors were open in that conservatory so
we did hear the music.
Did anybody complain to the council about it? If they were disturbed to that effect, did anybody complain to the council about it, you know?
That I can't answer. I can't answer if they have or not.
You haven't complained to the council?
I personally, no. I personally haven't.
Okay.
Thank you very much.
Okay.
Can I ask?
Yes, of course.
Yes.
Thank you very much for coming to speak.
And it's not easy to do that.
No, it isn't.
You're sitting beside the applicant.
The question I was going to ask is your presentation obviously
relates to music being played by the previous,
Councillor David Fowles - 0:48:36
well, I call them owners or licence holders,
in a room that's very different to the room
that we're now going to be talking about.
And the applicants go on to great pains, no pun intended,
when we talk about glass, to point out that the new event
space is only going to have glazing on one side, OK?
And it's a different end to the current location
of the orangery, which I know very well.
So the point I'm trying to make is what you're talking about is really the historical situation
with a different owner, with a different attitude to the current one, in a different space.
So I'm not trying to put words into your mouth, but what you've heard today from the applicants
and so on. Do you feel that on behalf of the residents that he is well aware of your concerns
and going to go as far as he can if he got the extension that we were trying to mitigate
that and to work with you as residents? Trying to get a feeling for you're talking about
history and yet we're talking about going forward in a new space with a new owner who's
clearly coming across to me as someone who really does care and wants this to be just
right. Are you willing to consider that's what he's trying to do?
Public Speaker - 0:50:12
I can say the previous general manager who before this gentleman took on Charingworth
Manor, the previous we have complained to him about noise and he didn't care. It was
there was no place day.
and so I I too commend that
and that's something, and refreshing, that's something that hasn't happened before.
We, all of us have, Stuart, I think it's Def, your general manager?
Stuart.
Stuart.
Every one of us have Stuart's email address and phone number.
So if there, and that was given to us by Hill House because if there is a problem he said
please call me.
So that has never happened before.
So we're confident that things are going to go down the right path, if that makes sense.
Councillor David Fowles - 0:51:20
It's really important that we get a flavour from you as local residents about, you know,
not to judge this application on the history with different room, whole different experience.
And it's very good that you're saying what you're saying to him, whatever the decision is.
So thank you very much. Thank you.
Thank you.
Yes, I've just got a couple of things.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:51:43
So are there functions running at the moment,
as far as you know?
I haven't heard any.
Public Speaker - 0:51:49
I actually have been away for three weekends in a row,
so I don't think there's been any functions.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:51:54
Have you been putting on any functions yet?
Applicant/Agent - 0:51:56
Very few, but yeah.
But you have had one or two?
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:51:59
We have had one or two, yeah.
And you've not heard any noise nuisance?
Applicant/Agent - 0:52:04
Okay, so that's helpful.
Thank you very much.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:52:05
The other thing is, have you noticed any other
noise nuisance?
I'm thinking particularly, as I remarked before,
of people leaving at one in the morning feeling rather jolly.
And OK.
Would you excuse me?
OK, thank you very much.
Do you mind if we pause for a comfort break just now?
Is everybody happy with that?

4 Application for a new Premises Licence

We're going for the question for the objector.
So, Francis, do you have any other concerns apart from noise?
I read through the four planning objections to you about prevention of crime and disorder,
public safety, and protection of children from harm, as well as it's really just the noise.
And do you have any concerns about, people usually have concerns if there's going to
building works in the area but you feel very confident that that will be not a
problem with with the removal of the orangery and the construction of the
new building this that's not a problem I'm sure that's that's a separate
planning issue actually yes do you know do you know roughly when you're likely
to complete that yeah we went on site about a month ago and we're due to
complete the end of November beginning of December okay and I just clarify it's
not the orangery is not being demolished. It's the swimming pool that's been
demolished. So the orangery will be still there but it won't be used for
Applicant/Agent - 0:53:46
functions anymore. What you tend to do is use two rooms so for example it's quite
possible that the ceremony will take place in the orangery and then they'll
move into the the bow we're calling it for the main event so they they tend to
work side by side but we won't be having two events at the same time so but the
music would always be then in the new function yeah thank you very much sorry
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:54:11
Councillor David Fowles - 0:54:18
councillor Fowles I just want to ask the applicant if building on what you said
Not the applicant, the objector. Are you are you happy?
And your your people you're representing that the process that has been gone through in terms of your representation the way
District Council's responded to you and this hearing today
Are you happy that it's fair and it's given you the opportunity to express your concerns?
It's very nice that we've been given the opportunity to say how you're sitting two metres from
It's fine.
I actually will go back and say I feel more confident that we will be heard if there is
an issue.
That has not been our past, that's not happened in the past.
So I feel that there's more synergy between Hill Hotel and the residents that's not been
before.
So thank you.
So do you think, building on that, that, as explained by the
applicant, that there could be a kind of, I call it, a procedure
that's put in place when there's an event and if it gets the
extensions granted today, that you'll be able to put in place
something that you can manage as residents with the hotel and the
operators and the manager and stuff?
I do.
Great.
Okay.
Thank you.
Any more questions?
No, thank you.
I think there aren't any more speakers.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:55:46
Nobody else has asked to speak from the statutory consultees.
No objections from the statutory consultees.
In which case, I think it falls to us now to make a decision.
And so I think the three of us who are on the committee
and will retire with our legal advisor to make a decision.
I'll explain that to you later.
Can she join us?
No.
Sorry, my colleague who is more familiar with doing this has asked me to sum up.
Do you want to say anything else as the applicant?
No, I don't think I do.
Thank you.
Applicant/Agent - 0:56:37
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:56:44
And this is what she's gone now, so she's obviously said all she wants to say.
So I think then we can retire and make our decision. Thank you.

4 Application for a new Premises Licence

Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:56:56
I have run a few things. So we just wanted to clarify some of the conditions to which you've agreed.
So I'll just sort of do the statutory things I've got to say.
So we've taken into account the licencing objectives,
which are legal requirement, any representation
from responsible authorities, and we've taken into account
what we've heard in the debate from yourself
and from the licencing officer and from the objectors.
So we've taken all those things into account
in reaching our decision.
So we understand that you have agreed to certain amendments to the conditions, and we'd like
to see those attached to the licence, if that's possible, as amendments.
So first of all, you've agreed not to have any live music after 10 .30, which would not
require a licence.
then you've agreed to have recorded music to 12 .30 instead of 1 .30.
And I understand that you've also agreed not to have any extension to the Azzon Bank holidays.
Was that correct? Okay.
Yes, that's correct.
Thank you very much.
Applicant/Agent - 0:58:16
We came to the knotty question of New Year's Eve when you might want to...
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:58:19
We thought we would keep that restriction in place because you are able to apply for a separate licence on New Year's Eve.
Is that not correct?
Yeah, so you could then apply to have live music on New Year's Eve if you wanted to as a separate thing.
I think that's the way it's going to work best.
It's absolutely fine by me, yeah.
Are you happy with all those conditions?
I am, yes I am.
Applicant/Agent - 0:58:42
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:58:43
I just wanted to clarify something. You mentioned not having any live music or recording music outside.
Councillor Ray Brassington - 0:58:50
Applicant/Agent - 0:58:58
Yeah, recording... it was live music or recorded music not outside after 10 .30 I think.
So you can have it outside up to 10 .30?
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that's...
I think that's the legal situation.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:59:09
I think it's 11 under the law, but yeah, correct.
Okay.
Applicant/Agent - 0:59:16
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:59:21
Just to clarify those timescales, so the applicant's going to 1030, which is slightly earlier than what the legislation allows.
Officer - 0:59:23
So up until 11 o 'clock it's deregulated under the Live Music Act.
So that when we're talking about this being a condition, these timescales that will actually form the licence.
So the licence will be set to those timescales that you're talking of there.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:59:43
and up until 11pm, it can be in or out because it's not licenseable.
Officer - 0:59:44
So yes, but the applicant is going with...
The suggestion of templativity doesn't need to be included in the licence
because it's not a licenseable activity.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 0:59:52
It's not a licenseable activity.
Essentially, once this licence is issued,
Officer - 1:00:01
live music won't show up on the licence because it's deregulated.
The only thing that will show up will be the recorded music,
which will be run from 11 p .m. until the time is clarified.
So while you've agreed that you'll stop the live music
Councillor Dilys Neill - 1:00:17
at 10 .30, if it just happened to run on a bit longer,
that would be okay.
Is that all right?
Good.
So we also withdraw your attention
to the amended requirements.
It's really from the police according
to this operating schedule.
so the amended requirements from the police yes I'm happy with those it's
just really mostly a matter for clarification isn't it yeah that had
Applicant/Agent - 1:00:45
Councillor Dilys Neill - 1:00:46
previously been accepted to remediation from the applicant yes great and you've
Officer - 1:00:50
agreed to submit a noise management plan to this council which will be examined
Councillor Dilys Neill - 1:00:56
by our appropriate offices correct yeah in that case with those sorry
Councillor Fels.
Applicant/Agent - 1:01:02
Councillor Dilys Neill - 1:01:05
Yeah, so we're happy to grant the licence with those restrictions.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 1:01:15
It's only really around the noise management, so the sale of alcohol, the sale of hot foods, etc., etc.,
is as nobody's had any concern about those, so those are granted.
We would like to thank you very much for the way in which you have negotiated with your
neighbours to come up with something which seems to be satisfactory.
Well done for that.
Does everybody understand what we are granting permission for?
Yes, thank you.
Do you want to go back?
Absolutely.
Thank you very much.
Applicant/Agent - 1:01:49
Officer - 1:01:50
Yes, I am concerned.
Thank you.
Is everyone happy with where we are?
Legal Services - 1:01:58
We're all happy.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 1:02:02
Good. Great.
How do the objectors get to here? Do they just hear in the normal course of events or do you write to them?
As part of our process we will inform all parties involved of the decision.
That needs to happen within five working days.
Officer - 1:02:19
So I'll work with the Democratic Services team just to get the final decision as put forward there and I'll inform everybody yes.
So the licencing is the licence when it's issued will contain those amendments that we've discussed.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 1:02:32
Yes, it will contain the amendment will be made. Obviously live music could be removed.
The
recorded music could be brought back to 1230.
Officer - 1:02:39
The additional hour requested will be removed. That won't form part of the licence.
and the condition will be added as agreed that noise management plan needs
to be submitted and approved by the noise pollution team.
Perfect, that's lovely and if you want to have a New Year's Eve party you'll have to come back to us about the music. Thanks.
Councillor Dilys Neill - 1:02:59
Thank you, thank you very much.
Applicant/Agent - 1:03:04
Officer - 1:03:11
So the licence will be deemed granted as of tomorrow.
Officer - 1:03:20
The following day it will be deemed granted and we would normally expect when adding a
condition with regards to the noise management plan we would normally expect that to be submitted
within 30 days but we will now be working with the noise pollution team
there isn't a time set on that we would ask the noise pollution team to make
contact with the applicants to start making arrangements and constructing
that where they will then stipulate a time frame as to when they would want
that in by but we would want that ideally in before any major events were
taking place. Okay and I've just got a form of words which a legal officer has
Councillor Dilys Neill - 1:03:55
given me to say, so I'll just read these out.
So, the licencing committee is mindful of the location of the
premises being situated within close proximity to the nearby
residential premises, and the conditions imposed on the
licence were considered appropriate to promote the
prevention of public nuisance by limiting potential noise
disturbance from the premises in the residential area.
The licence is also subject to the mandatory conditions
of the Licencing Act 2003, and the additional conditions
are consistent with the operating schedule.
Oh, dated, dated.
So the conditions imposed will come in force from tomorrow,
as we discussed.
There's a right of appeal against the licencing authority
you have to notify a magistrate's court within 21 days
if you're not happy with our decision.
And there are procedures contained within the Licencing
Acts 2003 relating to the review of the premises licence.
And that's a provision that allows residents
or nearby businesses or responsible authorities
to apply for a review of the premises licence
if there are any problems with crime and disorder,
public safety, public nuisance, or the protection
of children from harm. If any of those are occurring, there will be a review of the premises
licence, but I'm certain that that won't happen. Okay, that's it. Thank you very much. In that
case, I would like to close this committee.